Tfw keeping animals in cages and slaughtering them after 6 months of misery is different from the comfort of your 21st century life is different from being a feral animal living in the wilderness
Don't forget where we came from and what shaped us as a species. The Jungle.
Submitted 2 months ago by cm0002@lemmy.world to [deleted]
https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/d47fc60b-c596-47f7-955d-8bc933667bc1.jpeg
Comments
eskaliert720@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 months ago
Juice@midwest.social 2 months ago
Where we came from is less important than where we are going. The problems with veganism are not that they don’t eat animals, in fact I don’t think the problem is with veganism at all but with moral imperatives in general that promote black and white, oppositional political positioning. But moral imperatives are one of the most popular and effective rhetorical methods to make a point (and split opposition) so we are just kind of raised in it. If you’re someone who has strong opinions you learn to express them in a certain way.
But veganism is good and primitivist “return to nature” types have a dubious track record aka they tend to be chuds or on their way to chuddening. “Retvrn to the past” is a conservative talking point, but what separates us from nature is capitalism, not veganism.
jol@discuss.tchncs.de 2 months ago
Veganism is not return to nature. Quite the opposite. And it’s definitely not a return to the past. Veganism is a modern view of society where we look at the possibilities we have today, granted to us by technology and science, and decide to spare the lives of animals. We have a surplus of food and supplements that makes meat consumption less healthy, efficient and ethical than plant based. It’s was virtually impossible to do be 100% plant based 100 years ago in full health.
Juice@midwest.social 2 months ago
Wait that isn’t what I meant at all, I was contrasting the “return to nature” view with the vegan view.
DytallixB@lemmy.world 2 months ago
lengau@midwest.social 2 months ago
It’s way easier for me to have a vegetarian diet when I’m eating at home. At restaurants the vegetarian options almost always contain the one thing I’m allergic to, so I often have no choice but to eat meat when I go out.
WrenFeathers@lemmy.world 2 months ago
So, after reading a lot of the comments, I figured I’d offer my two cents:
What I eat depends on what I feel I need at the moment a lot more than what I’m in the mood for. And because of this, I try to eat as healthily as possible and as a result- it usually ends up being on the vegetarian side of things. Think pastas, fruits/veggies, etc. occasionally though, it’s a burger, or something meat-based.
What I don’t do however, is spend any time at all being concerned with what others chose to eat because it has no relevance to me whatsoever.
For the life of me I cannot understand why this is a thing that matters so deeply to so many people when there are FAR more important things to worry about.
If vegans don’t want to eat meat, who cares? They are happy with it. Leave them alone! It’s their choice, their diet- and none of your business.
If someone wants to eat a cheeseburger, who cares? They are happy with it. Leave them alone! It’s their choice, their diet- and none of your business.
The sooner we all stop actively participating in the habits and interests of others unsolicited, the sooner we can start taking on some of the things that actually matter.
/rant.
alekwithak@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Not vegan, but to play the vegan’s advocate—vegans are acutely aware of the level of cruelty in the factory farm system, as well as it’s affect on the environment and don’t want to partake in those systems of harm and taking without consent. To them, it’s not just a dietary choice but an ethical stance against suffering and exploitation. To someone who sees the life of a cow as just as sacred and important as a human’s, you can imagine why it would upset them to see you eating a steak. Just like you might be upset if you saw someone eating a dog or a fellow human. To them there’s no difference.
It’s similar to how evangelical Christians genuinely believe they’re trying to save people from eternal damnation when they get preachy. Just as annoying. The difference is that one is rooted in observable reality—documented animal suffering, environmental damage, and ethical concerns—while the other is a matter of ‘faith.’ and the latter is given a lot more leeway. So when vegans speak out, it’s not necessarily about policing your diet; it’s about trying to reduce harm in a world where harm is often hidden or normalized. And for what it’s worth I have known a lot of vegans and not one of them was ever preachy or judgemental, in fact most tend to keep it to themselves because vegans are so often the subject of ridicule, the butt of played out jokes, or made to host a session of 20 questions and feigned health concerns from people who eat nothing but processed meat and carbs.
I believe everyone should be able to do and live as they want as long as it doesn’t interfere with anyone else’s ability to do the same, and I can fully understand how to a vegan someone eating a steak would break that rule.
WrenFeathers@lemmy.world 2 months ago
And if a vegan wants to help that by obtaining from animal based products, that’s awesome for them! But they don’t need to be telling others how to live their lives.
They can make an effort to put the info out there, and do their part by staying true to their belief, but they have no authority to tell others how to eat.
That’s all I’m saying.
I will not debate the moral implications as that is not relevant to the point I’m making and is a different discussion altogether.
tomi000@lemmy.world 2 months ago
What omnivores eat should actually matter to vegans because theyre responsible for many deaths and suffering, which many see as their obligation to oppose. Funny how its mostly the other way around.
Imagine people going around raging about how you dont beat your wife and kids or dont rape and kill children.
Deme@sopuli.xyz 2 months ago
Also the environmental impacts. I don’t own a huge polluting coal powerplant that is actively contributing to fucking up the planet that I live on, and as such I’m still allowed to criticise them. Why should the meat industry be any different?
WrenFeathers@lemmy.world 2 months ago
As I already stated, I’m not getting baited into a morality debate.
If you don’t like eating meat- don’t eat it, but leave others alone about. It’s not your business what they choose to eat.
This isn’t about beating kids, or raping children, and I don’t appreciate the disgusting false equivalency you feel you need to use in order to make a point.
So here’s an actual equivalency:
Imagine people going around and telling you that you have to do something you don’t want to do because of their belief. Like for instance….
forced birth.
This is simply a dietary version of pro choice. You should be free to eat how you feel you need to in order to satisfy your needs, as well as your moral code- provided it remains within the limits of the law. EVERYONE should have this freedom. Even if you or I don’t like it.
So maybe leave people alone about it and put that energy towards something that has a better chance of success
starman2112@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
If someone wants to eat a steak, who cares?
The cow
starman2112@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
>inb4 some room temperature IQ replies with “are you really equating eating meat with slavery?”
No, slavery is worse than animal agriculture. That doesn’t mean that animal agriculture isn’t wrong for the same reasons that slavery is. You’re driving a demand for unnecessary harm to be done to sentient beings for a product you don’t need to survive.
WrenFeathers@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Well, here’s how it is, and I offer no apologies that you don’t like it:
You say the cow cares? I say the cow never asked for your advocacy. And we both know you cannot prove it has. So, in reality, it’s easily just as safe to assume that the cow never asked for your support as it would be to assume they did. And it’s also safe to assume they are entirely clueless about the concept of meat consumption, and even if they were, they’d be entirely indifferent to it because they lack the ability to conceive even the slightest notion of their own mortality- because they’re cows.
Look… People love to install human emotions and complex thought processes in everything we see. Up to and including inanimate object. It’s how we can connect with the world around us. If it feels what we feel, we can understand it better.
It’s a cow. It doesn’t think about shit. It has a natural preservation of life because that is built into survival instinct because that is part of how propagation of species works.
And no one asked your opinion on the moral responsibility of consuming meat either. You just offer it. So when I say that people should butt-out of others legal decisions regarding dietary habits- it’s shit like what you’re song here that illustrates my point.
What someone wants to eat, provided it is legal- is only considered to be your business to you and you alone- not to them. So your opinions of their consumption of cheeseburgers is every bit as important to an omnivore as the opinions of Christian fundamentalists are to the LGBTQ.
They don’t care.
Done arguing this. It’s obnoxious and a waste of time to bother. The only lesson learned here is a neutral stance doesn’t exist in a discussion with vegans.
Mistake only made once. Trust me.
some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org 2 months ago
Actually, I believe current thinking is that we came from grassland, hence the advantage of upright walking.
Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Depends on how far you go back. Grasslands came after jungles/forests.
Based on some of our traits (nose shape good for diving, can control our breathing voluntarily, fingers get more grippy when wet, lack of fur), we might have even been semi-aquatic for a while.
poplargrove@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Source on the semi-aquatic part? Looking it up only brings up the aquatic ape hypothesis which is pseudoscience.
LGTM@discuss.tchncs.de 2 months ago
I had thought that veganism was more of a beliefs thing: to not eat products of exploitation, but then I heard the honey thing. The honey thing might be just from an overbearing vegan, or I just don’t know the details, but beekeeping just looks so peaceful
cm0002@lemmy.world 2 months ago
OTOL honey thing?
FelixCress@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Oh, you haven’t heard about “bee enslavers”? 🤣
LGTM@discuss.tchncs.de 2 months ago
AFAIK many (?, please correct) vegans don’t eat honey, and that’s consistent with most of the people I know IRL. It tends to sway between “I try not to eat animal products” and “harvesting honey hurts/exploits bees”, the latter of which may be true for industry-scale honey, but I don’t see why local honey isn’t an option
OrteilGenou@lemmy.world 2 months ago
And the angel of the lord came unto me Snatching me up from my place of slumber And took me on high and higher still Until we moved to the spaces betwixt the air itself And he brought me into a vast farmlands of our own Midwest And as we descended cries of impending doom rose from the soil One thousand nay a million voices full of fear And terror possessed me then And I begged Angel of the Lord what are these tortured screams? And the angel said unto me These are the cries of the carrots, the cries of the carrots! You see, Reverend Maynard Tomorrow is harvest day and to them it is the holocaust And I sprang from my slumber drenched in sweat Like the tears of one million terrified brothers and roared "Hear me now, I have seen the light! They have a consciousness, they have a life, they have a soul! Damn you! Let the rabbits wear glasses! Save our brothers!
Rhoeri@lemmy.world 2 months ago
The first time I ever heard this was the night that album released. Lived in a house in Cape Coral Florida with a few member of a band I was in, and a few members of another band I was in as roommates.
We were absolutely wasted one night, and when the album ended, no one wanted to get up and start it over or put on something else… so we all just sat there.
And then, after a looooong silence, IT started playing….
No one moved an inch. We were absolutely floored! Minds were blown that night. Such a good memory!
Machinist@lemmy.world 2 months ago
I was sitting around stoned out of my gourd with a coworker (pizza delivery). We were listening to music with the stereo way up and he played this album. He was watching me when it started, kept a straight face through it, died laughing when it got to rabbits wearing glasses. Damn, that’s a good memory.
FelixCress@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Don’t get all logical with vegans, their heads may explode.
yesman@lemmy.world 2 months ago
OP’s argument is a fallacy so common it has a formal name. But I don’t want to get “all logical” and put anyone’s scalp at risk.
RizzRustbolt@lemmy.world 2 months ago
I read The Jungle in highschool. Not good book about food.
ivanafterall@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Plants can cry/scream. Checkmate, plant eaters.
starman2112@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
So does my phone when the battery is low. Do you reckon I’m hurting it by not plugging it in right now?
remon@ani.social 2 months ago
Your analogy basically boils down to Descartes’ hypothesis about “animal machines”.
There is a legitimate debate to be had about about the spectrum of consciousness/awareness and where it apparently stops. Most people would agree that mammals and birds are on it. I’ve seen the need for a central nervous system seen pop up a lot, but there is also octopuses, which are highly intelligent without having one. You can even find something that I can only describe as “intelligence” and a decent level of awarness in spiders, best example being the genus Portia. So where does the spectrum really end?
Some plants are capable of some impressive actions, like beansprouts systematically moving and “searching” for stuff to grab on, a lot of plants use pheremonal communications to warn each others of predators … there is good stuff here. So are the just totally of the spectrum of awareness and purley operating on a mechanical level, like a phone? I’m not sure.
The point is, we don’t really know what consciousness is. And while this video is quite dated, I’m not aware of a better take (though it doesn’t really do much in practice).
HappyFrog@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 months ago
I’m not even vegan, and I find that this meme both grossly misrepresents what veganism is about, and seems mean spirited.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 2 months ago
eh, veganism doesn’t work for my relatively unique anatomy (if I eat that much fiber I go to the hospital) but were it not for that I’d probably be eating a plant based diet. people tend to know what works for them, and i’m not going to judge them for their dietary choices. Except foie gras.
NikkiDimes@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Add veal to that list too
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 2 months ago
you know none of the restaurants i go to serve veal, and i’m not sure whether that’s a comment on my poverty or local society saying fuck veal, but either way i had forgotten about it and i think that’s great.
HawlSera@lemm.ee 2 months ago
nom
Zacryon@feddit.org 2 months ago
Isotopic evidence of high reliance on plant food among Later Stone Age hunter-gatherers at Taforalt, Morocco
blujan@sopuli.xyz 2 months ago
I don’t think anyone argues that we should live solely eating meat
dx1@lemmy.world 2 months ago
I don’t think that’s a sane way to respond to the comment he posted