Why do Republicans bring up Kamala's "lies"/shortcomings as a way to claim Trump is better?

Submitted ⁨⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨GrammarPolice@lemmy.world⁩ to ⁨[deleted]⁩

I’ve been consuming a lot of political content on both sides lately, but there’s one thing that seems to be common among the Republicans. They always point out Kamala’s shortcomings as a way to justify Trump’s right to be president. They constantly bring up Kamala’s wavering stances on fracking, the fact she hasn’t been to the border, and a lot of other stuff. And i just think to myself “okay, so what? She’s lied. So has Trump though”. Why are republicans making it sound like Trump hasn’t lied even moreso than Kamala?

Maybe the things Kamala lies about are so terrible? I really don’t know. Am i missing something?

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paddirn@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
That’s what they’ve done for like 8 years now, it’s the foundation of Whataboutism. No matter what you pin on Trump, they’ll jump on some other real or imagined wrong, no matter what it has to do with the conversation, and use that as justification for anything that Trump has done or will do. It’s just a way to sidestep or confuse the issue.

“Trump is literally talking about becoming a fascist dictator.” “Yeah, but in the 12th century, Genghis Khan killed like 20–40 million people, that’s what we’re facing from Chi-na, they’re going to slaughter everyone if we don’t do anything about them and their takeover of China-store Kamala, she’s bought and paid for!” “WTF is wrong with you?”

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- GrammarPolice@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  It’s so widespread though which is what baffles me. Even political commentators i used to follow when i was still a young conservative make arguments like this. Surely they can’t all be this dumb.
  
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  - riskable@programming.dev ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    
    Surely they can’t all be this dumb.
    
    After a few decades following American politics you’ll realize that yes, yes they can all be that dumb.
    
    Just have a general conversation with your most conservative neighbors about basically anything and you’ll quickly learn that there’s nothing they don’t have an opinion on and their level of ignorance is… Impressive.
    
    Like, dude, you’re 60+ years old and you think hurricanes are a conspiracy‽ The point where they lost their mind was long ago.
    
    Sooner or later you can’t help but wonder if they ever had sanity or they just faked it long enough to have a career/survive until retirement.
    
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  - gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    The repeal of fairness doctrine played a huge role in terms of how we got here
    
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  - spankmonkey@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    
    Surely they can’t all be this dumb.
    
    They are that dumb.
    
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  - Anticorp@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    
    Surely they can’t all be this dumb.
    
    “Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.”
    
    –George Carlin
    
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- Anticorp@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  “Nothing is wrong with me. My eyes are open! You need to do your own research and learn the truth. Not from any mainstream sources though, nor anyone who knows anything. Just listen to trump and he’ll set you straight. Then you’ll know the truth!”
  
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- winterayars@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  The strategy is “Never Play Defense”.
  
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Snapz@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
The purpose of your post is to “beg the question” and launder a false premise that “she lies” as if the Republicans had any meaningful claims to make in that area. They don’t. Your core position here is flawed.

Yes, trump is worse on all accounts. Always. Put him next to just about any living human being, save for the ones who’s pants he drools on, he’s worse. Without anything close to an equivalence.

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- GrammarPolice@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  I wasn’t laundering any false premises. I was only stating the fact that she has lied. I don’t doubt this because she IS a politician after all. The examples i used are things which the Republicans have brought up as “lies” which i acknowledge, and i assumed everyone also acknowledged. Of course, you’re free to disagree but I wasn’t trying to launder any false premises here.
  
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  - Snapz@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    You just acknowledging the blanket false claims, generalized “lies” and that framing is laundering their false premise. You conceding some sort of an equivalence and saying “so what, she lied” is further laundering their BS. If this wasn’t intentional, I’ll hear you out, but you need to then know that you’re being used as a puppet here then and unintentionally parroting what they’d like you to be saying. And, you should go add a note to your original post clarifying, if you’re sincere.
    
    I will ask you this, “What do you ACTUALLY know here?” You mentioned lies about fracking, sincerely, what are you referencing there? If you don’t have specifics at hand, and you have to now scramble to look something up and double down, time to admit, again even if unintentionally, you are laundering republican bs.
    
    Here I’ll help you:
    
    Harris did not make her personal position on fracking clear during her only debate in 2020, the general election’s VP debate against then-VP Mike Pence (of “Hang Mike Pence” fame)
    
    Harris never explicitly stated a personal position on fracking during that debate. She said that Biden, running for president with her supporting as VP, would not ban fracking if he was elected president.
    
    During the 2020 VP debate, Harris said, “Joe Biden will not end fracking,” and “I will repeat, and the American people know, that Joe Biden will not ban fracking.”
    
    Back before that VP debate, When Harris was actually running in the presidential primary on her own and could reference her own views on fracking directly, the furthest she came was “there’s no question I’m in favor of banning fracking.”
    
    There is no promise there. No lie told since. You can be in favor of something that isn’t politically feasible at a time, or feel you personally have more to learn. You can say something akin to, “that sounds like the right thing to do, but I’ll need to think about it more” that’s the measured stance of a thinking person.
    
    So what was the lie there? Or again, were you laundering the republican’s bs propaganda to try to normalize the idea that " EVERYBODY just lies, man… so trump ain’t so bad I guess…" - intentionally or unintentionally.
    
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- itsnotits@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  
  the ones whose* pants
  
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  - Snapz@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    I hesitated there, thanks. Do you feel confident with that spelling in this instance? Knew it felt off, but was sort of swimming in my head trying to decipher proper and didn’t want to stop to look it up at that moment.
    
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Anticorp@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

Why are republicans making it sound like Trump hasn’t lied even moreso than Kamala?

Because it works with their idiot base.

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ReallyActuallyFrankenstein@lemmynsfw.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
There are three practical reasons Trump does this:

Deflection: Trump doesn’t have an affirmative platform. As a populist strongman, Trump’s platform is situational and entirely based on what his supporters want to hear in any given moment. If health care is in the news, Trump will say his plan is coming in two weeks (it won’t ever come). If immigration is in the news, Trump will say he will build a wall and get Mexico to pay for it (he won’t).

Deflection: Manipulating the media works. Trump knows that the more ludicrous things he says about Kamala, even if the media then starts to talk about how he’s wrong or fact-check him, the focus is still on the thing he said rather than Kamala’s platform. It’s subtle, but it really does focus the media effectively on whatever he says, and use his frame of that issue as the media’s frame.

Filling the echo chambers and other spaces. We’re in our own echo chambers like never before. Trump says these things so that the people in the right-wing echo chambers have a plausible response to Kamala’s policies, or even just need filler for their broadcast/websites/Facebook groups. Ultimately there is only so much media people can consume every day. If Trump has filled all relevant supporter spaces with his own opinions & framing, there is no time or energy left to explore other opinions and framing.
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darthelmet@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
It’s just what you do when your side doesn’t have a justifiable platform on it’s own merit: See: All the people who keep telling us to ignore all the bad stuff corporate dems do because Trump would be worse.

IF you could actually run on things people liked, you’d talk about that and perhaps only call out your opponent’s opposition to the things you support or show how they might be lying about claims that they want similar things.

But when your core platform is “let rich people keep doing what they want,” you have to find ways to deflect from that.

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sharkfucker420@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Both political parties do this often. It’s much easier to attack your opponent for their transgressions than it is to prove your own aptitude and it seems to be just as, if not more, convincing to the average person. I don’t think this should be particularly shocking.

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- spankmonkey@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  One party does it based on reality and the other based on whatever they made up that is getting traction with their userbase.
  
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  - sharkfucker420@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    If only that were true
    
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- GrammarPolice@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  I never really cared for politics until very recently, so i always thought its discourse would be grounded in logic and not logical fallacies. So i am quite shocked.
  
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  - SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Sorry that the reality is that most humans who are pursuing power are doing it simply for powers’ sake because they’re self-centered garbage.
    
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  - Anticorp@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    At one point it was more grounded, but that was before Rush Limbaugh.
    
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  - sharkfucker420@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    You should try reading actual political theory. You’ll find that western politics isn’t and has never been grounded in reality. It does not have a material basis and as such it gains support through the people’s emotions, especially fear and anger.
    
    Here’s some easy reading to get you started
    
    The Communist Manifesto[Text][Audio]
    
    Blackshirts and Reds[Text][Audio]
    
    The Principles of Communism[Text][Audio]
    
    Introduction to Political Economy[Text]
    
    I don’t expect to shove books like this in your face and actually have you immediately read all of them. You may not be at the part of your political developement where you have any motivation to do that. So here are some youtube channels that cover the material in them and apply that material to modern reality in a more easily digestable way.
    
    Second Thought
    
    1Dime
    
    Balkan Odyssey
    
    Bes D. Marx
    
    F.D Signifier
    
    Fredda
    
    horses
    
    Andrewism
    
    None of these people get everything perfect all the time but they are generally good in my experience. Best of luck learning.
    
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Noel_Skum@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Just out of curiosity is there any reason, you’re aware of, that you went for “Trump and Kamala” as opposed to “Trump and Harris” when you wrote your post? I’ve got no clowns in this circus so it’s a genuine question.

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- GrammarPolice@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  No reason at all. It just sounded better in my head
  
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  - Noel_Skum@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Seems reasonable. After I posted I realised that “Donald and Harris” would be a meaningless word-soup in my head for a few seconds if you’d gone with that instead.
    
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- Razzazzika@lemm.ee ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Not OP, but boomers, you never refer to them as their first name, it’s always Mr. or mrs. Last name. Genx started the trope of 'Done call me Mr. X, Mr. X was my father. Genx started the trend of calling everyone by their given name that stuck with millenials and gen z.
  
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asmoranomar@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
I was sitting at the doctor’s office and overheard an old man claim Harris was so stupid that she couldn’t figure out how to use a vacuum.

It broke MY brain trying to wrap my head around that one.

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Kaiyoto@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Some people choose to belittle others to make themselves feel bigger rather than strive to be better.

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TexMexBazooka@lemm.ee ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Republican supporters eat, sleep, and breathe contradicting thought. It’s baked into their worldview (looking at you, Christians).

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PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Bikȯz Reıſizm. Ð quıit paṙt z ðæt Ðı þıŋk pruvıŋ Kamala luız mınz C’z æktcuėlı woṙſ bikȯz if Ðı’ṙ ıqėl, ðen Trump z betṙ ſinſ H’z wuıt æ C’z ė PvK.

spoiler
Because racism. The quiet part is that they think proving Kamala lies too means she’s actually worse because if they’re equal, then trump is better because he’s white and she’s a PoC.

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- abbotsbury@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Wow, you’ve gotten worse.
  
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winterayars@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
They know what’s going on, they know what they’re doing. They just don’t care, they like Trump they just can’t argue their case and don’t care to.

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Battle_Masker@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Generally speaking, a politician considers their voter base to either be the stupidest motherfuckers on the whole planet, or the most gullible. More often than not, it’s the former

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ContrarianTrail@lemm.ee ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
I’m trying to summon my inner Ben Shapiro here. This isn’t my opinion but my understanding of what he has said on this subject.

While Trump lies a lot, he’s fundamentally a bullshitter, which is different. A liar knows the truth but chooses to deceive, whereas a bullshitter doesn’t care about truth in the same way. When Trump says something like, “We’re going to withdraw from NATO,” he’s often expressing a sentiment or creating leverage rather than making a literal commitment. He treats politics like business deals, where you start with an extreme offer, then meet somewhere in the middle. Shapiro has argued that in the case of NATO, this approach worked: other member states did increase their defense spending (though the war in Ukraine played a role too).

So, the point is that Trump’s statements should often be taken as rhetorical posturing - ways to push for certain outcomes - rather than literal promises. From a Republican perspective, his actions during his first term ultimately aligned with their goals, which explains their relative tolerance of his exaggerations. In contrast, they see Kamala Harris (and Biden) as engaging in misrepresentation that has led to policies Republicans find harmful, so there’s a greater focus on what they see as her inconsistency between words and actions. In short, the critique of Harris and Biden is about both their statements and the results, which Republicans view as failures.

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- Doomsider@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  That is a lot of mental gymnastics even for Shapiro.
  
  When Trump says he is going to withdraw from NATO it isn’t 4d chess he is playing. He is not a mastermind of anything. Rather he says and does what he is told to by his handlers.
  
  He is not a businessman in any respect unless you mean a failed businessman whose image was rehabilitated by a reality TV show called the Apprentice.
  
  If he had never touched his daddies money and just left it invested he would be several times wealthier than he is now.
  
  He is perhaps the perfect person to destroy the presidency though which he has done a decent job at. You must understand the real goal of the conservatives is to prove our government is failing by making it fail.
  
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- GrammarPolice@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  This is a perspective i have never seen before. While his methods still seem underhanded. It at least provides some logical basis as to why people still support Trump in spite of his lies
  
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  - lovely_reader@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    It’s a stretch to assume they’ve thought it through to this degree.
    
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small44@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
It’s the opposite everytime someone criticize Kamala, her defenders can’t stop bringing trump in the picture

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- Badeendje@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Unfounded accusations are not the same as proven Loes by Trump either. And the Trump team constantly fabricate lies Kamala told. Not saying she has not, or the truth is more nuances than a soundbite.
  
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otp@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
You could have a list of Harris’ lies.

No one could compile a list of Trump’s lies. It’d be much more reasonable to compile a list of truths he’s said.

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Zorque@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Because it’s nothing more than a popularity contest for them. This isn’t the future of the country (or world) for them, it’s junior prom.

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barsquid@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Repubs have nothing but DARVO to work with when mudslinging.

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Steamymoomilk@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Some words.

There will always be sombody to disagree.

A good example, you could full whole heartedly be a kind and genuine person. And lets say theoretically, there is a poor starving man. You have food and give it to the starving man knowing your intention is to help and to not have any social, poltical, economical gain.

There will be people that claim he is not poor, people that will claim you did it a poltical, or social stunt. Are you sexist? You chose to help a man and not a women?? People that will paint you as the devil himself because your giving away food that sombody else could have had. Maybe there was sombody starving more? How dare you give away that bread!! There are millions of people and there will always be sombody who drinks the cool-aid.

Damn or be damned Make your choice with your best intent and live with it. For you will never know if it was the right decision, the world is emencly complex. I hope this helps explain politics and social antics.

I have learn alot of this lesson being autistic and seeing how others interpret mine or others actions and the potential outcomes.

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- GrammarPolice@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  You are right. I get too obsessed with objectivity sometimes, but it seems like there’s no such thing as the right choice only the one that’s best for me
  
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muntedcrocodile@lemm.ee ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Why do democrats bring up trumps “lies”/shortcomings as a way to claim kamala is better?

This isnt unique to a particular political party they all do it they always have they always will.

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- notastatist@feddit.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Because its the only thing he does ? Just my two cents because Im from Europe.
  
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  - muntedcrocodile@lemm.ee ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Not really he does stand for some things that isnt just fabricated bullshit. He primary purpise of a politician is to lie ur way to getting as many votes as possible u would be blind to think otherwise. I dont like the guy buy i just fund the whole trump is hitler narrative is an exaggeration that is making the political divide worse than it actually is.
    
    Just my 2 cents because im an aussie mainly here to piss off the American left and right equallity thats how i know im doing a good job.
    
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Professorozone@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
To be honest, I do the same thing. I would vote for a dead person to avoid Trump’s shortcomings.

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FeelzGoodMan420@eviltoast.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Because politics?

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scarabic@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Perhaps the lies of a serious politician are more significant than the ramblings of an insane clown.

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LovableSidekick@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
It’s easier than coming up with policy proposals. Trump needs something to talk about besides border, border, border.

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