alleges Valve “forces” game publishers to sign up to conditions which prevents them from selling their titles earlier or for less on rival platforms.
Given Epic is gives away games for free. This assertion about Valve is laughable.
Legal action over 'unfair' Steam game store prices given go ahead
Submitted 17 hours ago by Kastael@lemmy.world to games@lemmy.world
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx2g1md0l23o
Comments
RamRabbit@lemmy.world 11 hours ago
kuberoot@discuss.tchncs.de 3 hours ago
Valve gives you free steam keys for your game on request, which you can sell off steam, without paying Valve a cut. This has a specific rule that disallows selling those keys for a lower price. However, not sure if it’s this case, there was an email submitted as evidence from a Valve employee telling a game developer that selling their game for less in general would be undercutting steam, and something they wouldn’t want. If the email is real and not a misinterpretation, Valve indeed was/is pressuring developers to not sell games cheaper elsewhere.
Also, sales and giveaways are exempt from the steam key price parity rule, which I would assume epic’s free games would fall under, if you applied the rule to that despite not involving steam keys.
criticalinvite@lemmy.world 4 hours ago
Valve forces price parity with all platforms. So if they have lower charges, that saving cannot be passed on to the customer and so stops price competition.
cynar@lemmy.world 2 hours ago
I thought that only applied to steam keys?
You can sell your game for whatever you want elsewhere, but if you want them to be able to install via steam, you can’t undercut steam itself.
douglasg14b@lemmy.world 3 hours ago
That doesn’t conclude anything.
Are these the same games that are part of this lawsuit? If they are not, then what does Epic giving away different games conclude that this is a false premise for the lawsuit?
Critically think about that statement, it’s not logical.
Derpenheim@lemmy.zip 13 hours ago
“You’re company is too user friendly and everyone likes you. Its uncompetetive because we are trying to rip them off”
Quazatron@lemmy.world 15 hours ago
When you can’t compete, sue.
MeekerThanBeaker@lemmy.world 16 hours ago
Somewhat unrelated, but I have over 600 games on Epic Games. All free. Haven’t played a single one on that platform.
I have over a thousand on Steam, most of them I paid for (usually heavily discounted) and I play those on that. There’s a reason why I prefer Steam.
Godort@lemmy.ca 16 hours ago
Valve got to where they are by simply being the option that offered the most convenience to end users.
All the things this lawsuit is challenging are true. Valve does have a defacto monopoly on PC games distribution, they do not let you buy DLC on other platforms for games you own on steam, and they do take a 30% cut of sales.
Having these be limited by government regulation is a good thing. It would increase interoperability and increase competition in the space.
If those things get changed, people will still continue to use Steam because they continue to offer a service that “just works”. Every other storefront that has attempted to compete seems to either trip over itself by trying some anti-consumer behavior to increase short term profit(EGS, Uplay), lack discoverability features(itch), or not offer enough benefit to endure cost of change(GoG)
wreckedcarzz@lemmy.world 16 hours ago
I’ll be that guy and say that I do prefer buying from GOG, going as far as paying more money in doing so, so the issue isn’t really ‘friction’ but ‘mfs don’t bother offering on GOG’.
My hate for drm has only grown over the last two decades, and so I’ll get stuff wherever I can that isn’t plastered with it. But it’s not even a rounding error in comparing the number of games available of steam vs GOG. You’d have to go so far out with zeros that you fall off the page before encountering a positive value (0.00000[…]00001%). Which is upsetting and frustrating, since the other option is steam or piracy. And I do like rewarding developers for their work, so that leaves one option basically all the time.
Truscape@lemmy.blahaj.zone 16 hours ago
There are games on Steam that don’t have DRM (since it’s not a requirement from Valve). The most prominent examples I can think of are games from Toby Fox and Klei Entertainment.
phx@lemmy.world 11 hours ago
Indeed, and now what GoG is pursuing stronger Linux offerings I may shop there more, but Valve had contributed more than just a shop and launcher. The Linux work with Steam Deck and Proton has been invaluable.
ech@lemmy.ca 11 hours ago
In terms of straight numbers, isn’t Steam’s large “advantage” there it’s offering of independent, mostly unregulated games from small time devs? Are those really using drm? Even if there are, I don’t really think most users are choosing Steam over GOG for access to “Asset Flip #57354”.
PlzGivHugs@sh.itjust.works 14 hours ago
Every other storefront that has attempted to compete seems to either trip over itself by trying some anti-consumer behavior to increase short term profit(EGS, Uplay), lack discoverability features(itch), or not offer enough benefit to endure cost of change(GoG)
I’d argue that GoG also falls into the lack of discovery catagory.
That said, I’d argue that the lack of discovery isn’t just a player issue, but ties back into the other side: publishers and devs. These storefronts/launchers are unessisary middle men. A software company can run its own store, and make its own launcher. Just look at so many of the big titles over the last two decades: Minecraft, League, Tarkov, War Thunder, Roblox, and more recently Hytale. Looking at players is only half the puzzle, the other half is how these storefronts compete against each other, and even agaist direct-to-customer sales for publishers.
So, for publishers/devs, what does Steam offer?
- Payment processing
- Distribution
- A very robust support system
- Discoverability
- Tools for online play and social features
- Lightweight DRM for those who want it
- Modding tools
- A community forum
- Tools to add compatibility to your games
- A plethora of extra features that improve your product for the players
And at what cost?
- 30% cut
- Tied to a forum, whether you want to be or not
Now to compare to, lets say, GOG:
Offers:
- Payment processing
- Distribution
- Some user support
Costs:
- 30% cut
- DRM is banned
Because of this, its no wonder that they can’t get more of the market. Why would someone choose to sell there over Steam, or even over direct-to-consumer?
NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world 12 hours ago
You left off the newer steam deck which opens your games up to a mobile audience.
ampersandrew@lemmy.world 13 hours ago
A software company can run its own store, and make its own launcher. Just look at so many of the big titles over the last two decades: Minecraft, League, Tarkov, War Thunder, Roblox, and more recently Hytale.
This is also survivorship and selection bias though. Not only would you not have heard of the ones that failed, but these are the games confident enough to not launch on Steam in the first place. Several of them are so old that Steam was in its infancy and not the de facto storefront when they came out.
ech@lemmy.ca 11 hours ago
unessisaryunecessaryJust a little correction.
lofuw@sh.itjust.works 16 hours ago
alleges Valve “forces” game publishers to sign up to conditions which prevents them from selling their titles earlier or for less on rival platforms.
As always, these moves are being perpetuated by scumbags who just want to make more money without putting in any additional effort.
If Steam is worth releasing a game on in the eyes of the developers, then they have to pay the price to do it. If it’s not worth the price, then they are under no obligation at all to release their game on Steam.
Most games on Steam fail to gain any traction. If your game fails, it’s not because it isn’t on Steam; it’s because it’s a pile of shit and you’re not special because you made something.
protogen420@lemmy.blahaj.zone 15 hours ago
the main reason this lawsuit is even moving is that leaked emails that valve does indeed force price parity even for non steamkeys, I really doubt those leaked emails since I have seen first hand plenty of cases of games having different prices, sometimes even extreme differemce in pricing, for example, mindustry is paid ln steam but free on itch.io, google play store, fdroid
many other, even more questionable claims are raised withour evidence or drawn very dubiosly in the law suit
this lawsuit is pure theatre
beyond this, plenty of companies have even more and clearly anti competitive with their practices extending beyond game selling and distribution, namely apple and google, who control respectively iOS’ (very genericly poorly named) apps store and play store who clearly display anti competive behaviour and are clear monopolies
Sonotsugipaa@lemmy.dbzer0.com 12 hours ago
Mindustry is straight up open source, it is available on github under the GNU GPL v3
chiliedogg@lemmy.world 11 hours ago
It’s more nuanced than that.
Choosing not to release on Steam isn’t easy because it’s not a balanced market, at all. It’s trying to release a Disney-style animated movie, but only in adult theatres.
Steam is the 900-pound gorilla. Yes, they have a good interface, but they take a ludicrous portion of game revenue. Epic has a shit interface, but they take well-under half of the fees Steammdoes for the same game.
Gabe is not your friend. He’s a billionaire yacht-collector. Half-Life 2 wasn’t designed to be a great game. It was designed to launch a digital storefront that allowed Valve to rake in 30% of all revenue for games sold on the platform - which is often a larger percentage than is paid to the actual people making the games.
Why are we defending a system where the fucking checkout system is valued as much as the people making the games?
lofuw@sh.itjust.works 9 hours ago
It’s more nuanced than that.
It’s not, though. If people actually want to play your game, then Steam isn’t going to get in the way.
Look at MMOs. Look at fortnite. Minecraft. Roblox. Those games can succeed without Steam because people want to play them.
If a game can’t succeed without being on Steam, then Steam isn’t the problem.
Why are we defending a system where the fucking checkout system is valued as much as the people making the games?
You’re asking the wrong question here. You should be asking why you’re defending the developers who just want to make more money and don’t care about how it may impact the experience for their customers.
Gabe isn’t your friend and neither are the whiny/greedy developers.
ToTheGraveMyLove@sh.itjust.works 3 hours ago
Half-Life 2 wasn’t designed to be a great game. It was designed to launch a digital storefront that allowed Valve to rake in 30% of all revenue for games sold on the platform - which is often a larger percentage than is paid to the actual people making the games.
Those things aren’t mutually exclusive. It was used to launch Steam, but it was also an objectively great game because Valve cares about their craft.
Stern@lemmy.world 5 hours ago
Yes, they have a good interface, but they take a ludicrous portion of game revenue.
They take the same cut as Microsft, EA, Nintendo, Google, Apple, Sony, and more. You wanna argue 30% is excessive? I agree, but Steam isn’t an outlier here. At least Steam has enough extra shit they do for devs to make that 30% almost feel worth it.
ampersandrew@lemmy.world 16 hours ago
Plenty of great games are not immune to failing even when they’re on Steam. The market is tough. But at the same time, it makes perfect sense that Steam has a rule preventing you from taking advantage of their infrastructure for marketing and communicating with customers while you make it available on Epic first for less money.
Goodeye8@piefed.social 15 hours ago
And to add to this, allowing a lower price on a different storefront isn’t going to make the game cheaper to purchase. Either it’s not going to have any impact on pricing, unless a competing store has money to burn and will pay the publisher extra to sell the game for cheaper (which will actually hurt only the smaller storefronts), or it will lead to games being overpriced on Steam which is a near guaranteed controversy to any publisher pulling this stunt, at which point it would be cheaper to not change pricing or just go full exclusivity.
It’s an argument on paper but in practicality it’s bullshit. If Steam removed this clause or wouldn’t be a net positive for the consumer and worst case would be a net negative.
atrielienz@lemmy.world 8 hours ago
It’s crazy to me that when they sell a steam key on another store front, steam takes none of the profits from that at all, the key is free to generate for the dev, and the only stipulation is that they have to sell if for the same price it is on the steam store front.
THE_GR8_MIKE@lemmy.world 15 hours ago
Steam is the reason I am buying so many games. They’re way cheaper there than on other marketplaces. This lawsuit sounds like a shareholder from another company whining about not making as much as they wanted.
deczzz@lemmy.dbzer0.com 17 hours ago
Sounds good. Valve are doing a lot of things right but I often find that they go under the radar when compared to similar stories around Google and Apple.
Goodeye8@piefed.social 15 hours ago
Because Apple and Google are trying to lock down their platform to make sure there is no competition. The only thing Valve does is exist. Valve isn’t trying to make it impossible for GOG or Itch or Epic store to exist, in fact Valve can’t even do that (unless their SteamOS becomes a locked down platform which guarantees a consumer backlash) because PC is an open platform. Partly thanks to Valve you’re no longer tied to Microslop either, you can swap to any Linux distro and have the vast majority of games still work. Valve isn’t even using it’s market position to keep competition down (even if the lawsuit tries to argue the opposite). The brought up arguments either have no impact on the consumer market or a things that other storefronts are also doing.
I’m not against having more competition on the storefront side, but this lawsuit is just about trying to squeeze money out of Valve.
Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world 17 hours ago
Am I the only one who finds this story laughable? As a mostly console gamer, if feels like Nintendo releases games for $70, and they NEVER drop in price.
If you can find a walmart that somehow still has PS2 and gamecube games, the PS2 game will probably be some sports game, and it’s been reduced to $0.10.
The Gamecube game will be some kirby game, and still 2002 MSRP of $60.
Meanwhile over on steam, they’re like:
kuberoot@discuss.tchncs.de 3 hours ago
I don’t think the example at the end of your comment is relevant, since to my knowledge it’s the publisher deciding on pricing and doing sales, and steam is still taking the same cut.
I also think it’s generally not a great thing, since it basically puts the value of the game at $5, making it not worth getting off-sale, while also creating urgency to do so during a sale. I respect Factorio developers’ choice to just not do sales at all, and state so, so that buyers know exactly what the price is.
Katana314@lemmy.world 1 hour ago
I think Valve does get some say in the amount and timing of sales. It’s something they need to control to arrange the big seasonal sales, and something publishers must agree to, or set an acceptable range, when first signing up.