Everyone is so close to grasping your unique vision!

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• kopasu22@lemmy.world ⁨19⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

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  • marcos@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    People already made liberalism in the 17th Century.

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  • PixelPilgrim@lemmings.world ⁨7⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    Now if only people acted on those ideologies lol

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• Gorilladrums@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  Once you go further left than social democracy, the left becomes a complete joke, especially the “MUH REVOLOOSHUN” types.

  There will never come a time when purity testing is not an integral part of the far left because that’s just how authoritarianism works. They’ll always be rigid and inflexible ideologically, and they’ll always look to gatekeep and exclude. Because they’re incapable of being pragmatic, adaptable, or unifying, they’ll never organize enough to do anything. In the few times in history where that did happen, the movements always ended up imploding from within.

  As far as I’m concerned, the modern far left will always be an online phenomenon that will only make little splashes here and there. Therefore, anybody who is concerned about their crappy ideologies has nothing to worry about.

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• WhiskyTangoFoxtrot@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  The whole point of the revolution is that it’s not going to happen. There are a million non-violent ways to oppose authoritarianism such as boycotts, labour strikes, voting blocs, etc. but since they involve at least some amount of effort and inconvenience no one (in the USA, at least) wants to do them. However, by wanking about a revolution that you know will never come you can claim to be on the right side of history while still taking the path of least resistance in every way that matters.

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  • Bluewing@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    Every non-violent revolution succeeded because of the violent revolution behind it. The peaceful leaders like Gandhi or MLK make the history books because they make for better propaganda. MLK was seen as easier for government and society to deal with rather than the gun toten’ Black Panthers. And Gandhi had bunches of armed and violent small revolutionary groups in the background.

    History shows that unless enough people are actually willing to fight and die for social and political change, peaceful marches don’t change much.

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    • WhiskyTangoFoxtrot@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      I’m not talking about marches. I’m talking about things that will actually affect people’s bottom lines. There’s a whole range of possible actions between sign-waving and bomb-throwing but the so-called revolutionaries are always the first to oppose them.

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  • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world ⁨7⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    There are a million non-violent ways to oppose authoritarianism such as boycotts, labour strikes, voting blocs, etc. but since they involve at least some amount of effort and inconvenience no one (in the USA, at least) wants to do them.

    These economic levers typically need a critical mass of participation. And one way to get that participation is via buy-in from the government (regulation) or capital (BSD). Random people refusing to shop at Starbucks doesn’t mean much. But when a location is shut down for violating ordinances or because the landlord kicks them out, that’s a material hit to their pocketbook the owners can’t ignore.

    Rallying that critical mass of support is difficult and frustrating. I’ve heard more than one organizer describe it as “herding cats”. This isn’t a trivial issue of inconvenience or effort. It requires an industrial scale of activism.

    However, by wanking about a revolution that you know will never come you can claim to be on the right side of history while still taking the path of least resistance in every way that matters.

    “The Revolution” is a critical mass of critical mass events. Its something you can only really talk about in hindsight, because it requires a bunch of constantly moving social parts to kinda line up at the right moment and move in the right direction together.

    Revolutions aren’t uncommon. Large institutional shifts in composition, function, and ideology happen regularly. But they’re a lot easier when the people executing them already have a bunch of institutional controls to operate. “Wanking” often feels like the only thing you can do, because you’re so cut out of the so-called democratic process.

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  • Melvin_Ferd@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    Why not just use the methods that are proven to work which are none of those things you mentioned?

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  • deHaga@feddit.uk ⁨11⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    So we are literally edging our way towards revolution, lol

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• yakko@feddit.uk ⁨18⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  I gave up arguing with anyone I even slightly agree with. In my wildest dreams I’ll get to bicker with them at a city council meeting about what version of leftism we like best. You go to the revolution with the wild-eyed dreamers (and/or dangerous maniacs) you’ve got, not the ones you want.

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  • Deceptichum@quokk.au ⁨18⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    Nah, can’t go to a revolution with people who plan to shoot you in the back at first chance.

    Too many times anarchists get slaughtered before the war is even won.

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    • yakko@feddit.uk ⁨17⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      You’re right! Thank you.

      See how that works? In my wildest dreams I get thrown under the bus by the wrong kind of leftist. Are you kidding me? I’ll roll those dice all day and still be more worried about the actual shit happening.

      There is currently no revolution, and we know arguing doesn’t hardly change anybody’s mind. Especially not authoritarians’ minds, right? You can’t convince me to do anything but laugh at tankies and, god forbid, patronise them.

      So in summary you’re right and thanks. Great stuff. Sarcasm, but also solidarity. Take it or kill me.

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    • marcos@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      TBF, anarchy is the ideology that claims people being shot on their back after the revolution is a problem to be ignored with one’s entire strength. It’s no wonder that this exact problem always happens to them.

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• TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  Not really. It’s more about what options are there. Of course, the left argue whether through peaceful or a violent revolution. Personally, I see violence only as the last resort. But even so, we argue what the catalyst should be for an open revolution. While Trump’s ICE kidnappings and brazen violation of constitution, it is clear he is provoking people to give him legal grounds to incite the insurrection act, and consolidate his power.

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  • PixelPilgrim@lemmings.world ⁨7⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    Lol yeah left is arguing over violence or peace… I see news stories and there isn’t that much violence going around from anyone except the government and DSA is only 90,000 members strong after ZOHRAN win.

    So it’s really the fight is between leftist that do something and the leftist that complain and do nothing

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• Melvin_Ferd@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  Oh shit!

  This is exactly how the MAGA movement consolidated. Crazy to watch it on the left.

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• explodicle@sh.itjust.works ⁨6⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  Why, they aren’t even Real Leftists! They’ve fallen for a capitalist ruse.

  Karl Marx considered the Single Tax platform as a regression from the transition to communism and referred to Georgism as “Capitalism’s last ditch”. Marx argued that, “The whole thing is … simply an attempt, decked out with socialism, to save capitalist domination and indeed to establish it afresh on an even wider basis than its present one.” Marx also criticized the way land value tax theory emphasizes the value of land, arguing that, “His fundamental dogma is that everything would be all right if ground rent were paid to the state.”

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• PixelPilgrim@lemmings.world ⁨7⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  Lol I like how DSA get some real wins and magically its an institution that’s a branch of the Democrats party used to subvert and dissenters. It’s nothing how green party is called useless and a way to spoil elections for democrats(even though they never spoil the election)

  Now I’m helping various movements uncritically and watching these infighter get mad when they can’t name an accomplishment they done

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  • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world ⁨7⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    I mean, I volunteer with Food Not Bombs, and their politics is well to the left of the DSA. But if you ask them what their accomplishments are, its a pretty straightforward “We food the homeless people that the police would rather see starved to death”. That’s it. Every week, getting out and distributing food, even if people get arrested for it.

    Now, there’s definitely other people who just spend all their days shitposting and doing nothing else of consequence. But they’re not typically the people I meet in person when I’m out trying to make my neighborhood a better place.

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    • PixelPilgrim@lemmings.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      That’s brag worthy. I should help fnb. I do know one guy in the DSA that helps them out their mutual aid efforts

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• Draegur@lemmy.zip ⁨20⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  Fact: 90% of all leftist infighters MUST quit as a prerequisite before the movement can be capable of revolution, irrespective of “purity”.

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  • Macchi_the_Slime@piefed.blahaj.zone ⁨19⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    Not necessarily, they could just adopt the so-called “correct” position from the perspective of the purist too couldn’t they?

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• andrewrgross@slrpnk.net ⁨21⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  Real

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• hcf@sh.itjust.works ⁨21⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  u wot, comrade?

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• PrimeMinisterKeyes@leminal.space ⁨10⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  To quote David Salomon:

  The more closed a worldview, or - phrased differently - the more systematic and scientific an ideology is, the less it will be able to muster the pragmatism necessary to establish a hegemonic position. A worldview, a doctrine, a system in its pure form is never capable of hegemony. The capacity for hegemony contaminates thought structures. It manifests itself downright in the willingness to integrate other positions and ideologies.

  Pessimistic Corollary: Ideological purity is a moral consolation price for those with no shot at power.
  Optimistic Corollary: Ideological purity is an essential requirement, as a means to inoculate a budding movement against the inevitable corruption and adulteration caused later by real life conditions, and to sow the seeds of a future enlightened society.

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• sundray@lemmus.org ⁨17⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  Aw, but my unique vision was to build a wall around Oklahoma!

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  • WhiskyTangoFoxtrot@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    That would be OK.

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  • Darohan@lemmy.zip ⁨11⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    We found 'em guys, the most pure leftist. All the other ideologies can go home I want whatever this is.

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  • bob_lemon@feddit.org ⁨15⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    You want to build a wall to to Oklahomans in Oklahoma

    I want to build a wall to keep non Oklahomans out of Oklahoma.

    We’re not the same

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    • ebolapie@lemmy.world ⁨12⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      who’s gonna pay for your toll roads if you keep the texans out though

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    • sundray@lemmus.org ⁨14⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      See, it’s win-win!

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• halvar@lemy.lol ⁨18⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  So if I oppose infighting then am I

  • an enemy of the revolution
  • someone whoese movement didn’t get pure enough before I left
  • or both?

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  • PixelPilgrim@lemmings.world ⁨7⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    That’s why I simply just say “I’m doing something what are you doing?”

    Then they’re gonna really fold. There won’t be any infighting.

    Most likely they’ll flip the question but just make sure you did something

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• ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world ⁨17⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  “Cancel culture” is just gatekeeping for leftists.

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  • marcos@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    Some versions of it are just trying to make the world better; some are plain baldfaced authoritarianism.

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  • Cattail@lemmy.world ⁨7⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    Gatekeeping that’s cute. How does that advance any leftist movements?

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    • ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      It doesn’t, but will make some people who like to rant about “normie” leftists feel better; or get rid of that content creator they don’t like, while not knowing not everyone they don’t like as a creator is a secret nazi (knew a few people like that).

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