Do you think conservative feel the same need to burn it all down as everyone else felt when trump won again?

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• Solumbran@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Conservatives are defined by the need to burn it all down. The point is that they see a horrible past as glorious, torture as duty, and war as peace.

  It doesn’t matter who dies or whatnot, everything is just a tool towards this goal, not the actual motivation behind it.

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• cerebralhawks@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  I think they’re mad. Charlie Kirk was their man, and he was so young, who knows what he could have been. Like, Trump is what, pushing 80? Plus he’s a felon, everyone knows he’s in the Epstein files… he is on his way out, in more ways than one. Kirk is a little cleaner. So all their hopes and dreams of keeping the coloured man down, keeping the “alphabet mafia” as Kirk called the LGBTQ+ community, down, were pinned on this guy, or at least a lot of those hopes, so yeah, they’re pretty pissed.

  Thing is, they weren’t gonna let up on people of colour or people of different sexual identities/orientations anyway. And all signs show they were ramping up the violence against minorities. So yeah, they’re mad, but when they say things like “now it’s war” it’s hard to know what they mean since they were waging war before.

  It’s like an abusive situation and a lot of these people are probably domestic abusers and come from that mindset. Like they were already going to do damage, but now that you’ve struck back? Oh, now you’re really in trouble. But you were never not in trouble because the problem isn’t you, it’s them. They were always gonna be that way. We have to figure out how to get our country out from under this bullshit.

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  • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Lol now they’re left with Tim Pool hahahaha

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  • mugita_sokiovt@discuss.online ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    To be fair, there’s a massive chance Trump sacrificed Kirk in order for him to keep bowing to his masters elsewhere. That’s what Neigsendoig (my producer) and I learned watching a numerological breakdown on the whole Kirk thing.

    Also, his wife was in the Bravo show, Summer House, which tells us big time who used Kirk during his final years.

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• masterbaexunn@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Charles Kirk was a fascist. Call him that.

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  • mugita_sokiovt@discuss.online ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Unfortunately, he was classified as one. While he engaged in Socratic debate, he was a Jesuit Zionist through and through. As a partial German-American Khazar myself, I would know that big time.

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    • vinceman@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      You use lots of words that have extremely little meaning in this context. He was a piece of shit fascist who called for genocide of several minority groups, if you’re trying to defend his talking points that makes you a fascist.

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    • onslaught545@lemmy.zip ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Why is it unfortunate that a fascist was classified as a fascist?

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    • Twinklebreeze@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      The way you talk reminds of that guy that kept posting about manifesting wings.

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    • nagaram@startrek.website ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Khazar is an interesting new identity to me.

      Cursory google search says it was a trade empire that lasted 200 years and converted to Judaism.

      Off topic to the rest of the post, but I’m now deeply curious what a modern day Khazar is and what it means to you. Please enlighten me!

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• socsa@piefed.social ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  They don't actually give a shit about Charlie Kirk. They just want a catalyst for their enabling acts.

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  • Tollana1234567@lemmy.today ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    he was and still useful TOOL even when dead, to rile up the base, it is having a lesser effect because it was someone further right than he is, they were all ready to go with “leftist radical” narrative.

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• Nemo@slrpnk.net ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  I’m a conservative, and no. Charlie Kirk was awful. I’m a pacifist, so I’m not glad he’s dead but I’m not surprised either. “Those who live by the sword” and all that.

  “Burn it all down” flies straight in the face of conservatism anyway. It’s all about tying to save the good things in society from destruction. When it feels like the government or society is all gone wrong is the time when it’s most important to save what we can.

  I’ll be honest, it’s hard to feel hopeful when our current President won reëlection on a deeply regressive platform. The man is hostile to any kind of conservatism because he hates checks on his power. His vocal wrath is directed against progressive standards because that’s what riles up his base but at the same time he’s doing damage to our government and social institutions that will last for generations. He’s a nightmare for conservatism. But that just makes it all the more important to fight the tide. Giving up and burning it all down is not the answer.

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  • Steve@communick.news ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I find it strange that anyone can look at the current US government and think it’s “Conservative”. The Republican Party has clearly become a radical, right wing, extremist, authoritarian, revolutionary sort of ideology. It’s obvious they want to completely remake the government and all of society. They’re not looking to conserve anything anymore.

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    • BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      There is no Republican Party any longer, they are as dead as the Whigs. They should only be referred to in an historical or scholarly context.

      They are the MAGA Party now. They have nothing in common with the traditional platform of the Republican Party - smaller government, lower taxes, economic/fiscal responsibility, family values, religious values, etc. MAGA embraces none of those foundational tenets, instead supporting and encouraging treason, racism, corruption, violence, genocide, pedophilia, misogyny, incompetence, ignorance, and more.

      The Dems should hold a press conference, and unilaterally, but officially, declare the death of the Republican Party, and then never refer to them again, always calling them the MAGA Party. The MAGAs are proud of being Republicans, and they will go out of their minds over this.

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    • Nemo@slrpnk.net ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Exactly right.

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    • bradorsomething@ttrpg.network ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Republicans aren’t conservatives since the tea party.

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  • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I’m curious what it is about conservative ideology that appeals to you. Because I have come to the conclusion after several decades on this planet, that deep down it is a destructive, and morally bankrupt philosophy.

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    • Nemo@slrpnk.net ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      I’m curious how you came to your conclusions, too, because the point of conservatism, to me, is to prevent destruction.

      I’ve been a environmental conservationist my whole life. As I became an adult and aware of politics, I came to realize that just as the natural environment requires protection against the selfishness, greed, and short-sightedness of humanity, so too do all the social and political systems that take decades or centuries to build but only years or months to destroy (as we’ve seen under the current administration).

      It’s been said many times that at the heart of all conservatism is fear. That’s not a very generous way to put it, but neither is it inaccurate. Fear of loss, fear of risk, fear of change. Conservatism holds that if things are pretty good, most changes are likely to make things worse and not better, and so change is to be treated with suspicion, and people pushing for it doubly so, since altruism is rare.

      A bicycle needs both pedals and brakes. We need to move forward, but not recklessly. Before a change is made, the case needs to be argued as to why it is necessary, what it will cost (and there’s always a cost), how to ensure it actually achieves what it sets out to achieve, and how it might be misused in the future. In other words, before a change can be made in the name of Progress, it needs to be demonstrated that the change actually is Progress. To progressives, this feels like standing in the way of Progress. To a conservative, this is safeguarding Progress, the Progress previous generations achieved, from changes that, again, are more likely to be bad than good.

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  • DreamAccountant@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Nazis hate preachers aren’t awful for conservatism, they ARE conservatism.

    “But I’m just a fiscal conservative, the only REAL kind of conservative!”

    You’re joining forces with nazis. If you’re not a nazi, you’re a nazi collaberator. So please kindly go fuck yourself with your bullshit that only you believe.

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    • Nemo@slrpnk.net ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Fiscal conservatism doesn’t work, any economist can tell you that.

      You’re completely correct that conservatism destroyed its reputation when it allied with the religious right in an attempt at political power. The regressives took over the GOP, calling themself conservatives all the while. Terrible to watch from the outside, but like I said, giving up is not the answer. The only thing to do is push back, and try to save what can be saved.

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  • alekwithak@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Many years ago I got banned from r/conservative for asking where exactly conservation came into play as part of their ideology. On its face, being conservative sounds awesome. I want to conserve this planet’s ecology. I want to conserve human rights. I have never seen any conservative American politician in the last thirty some-odd years try to conserve anything. It would be much more apt to call them regressionists, but they’re so much worse than that.

    But since you willingly identify yourself as a conservative, and you’re here, what is your take?

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• Fedizen@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Crocodile tears from crocodiles.

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• RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Democrat here. Didn’t want to burn it all down. Hoped there would be adults in the room to reel trump in like last time. Nope. He’s wrecking everything and I’m not sure it’s possible to put it all back together again even if it’s possible to put dems in charge.

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  • alekwithak@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I’m not sure it’s possible to put it all back together again even if it’s possible to put dems in charge.

    We crossed this threshold on day 3.

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• LadyButterfly@reddthat.com ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  They’re really unhappy and angry, and I understand why. Kirks views on abortion and LGBT+ in particular make me want to scream, but I’m totally against someone being gunned down like that for their political views. It’s scary for people that vote Conservative.

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• betterdeadthanreddit@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  I’ll worry about 50,000 other things today before the question of how conservatives are feeling crosses my mind. It’s not important.

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• HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  The conservative need to burn everything down got Trump elected.

  The problems with Charlie Kirk’s assassination is the following.

  First, random gun violence hit a conservative news commentator. Worse, it was someone who grew up in a conservative family. So, you’ve got a lot of conflicting emotions playing out in real time.

  Second, there has been a lot of push back regarding what kind of commentator Charlie Kirk was. The discussions of who Kirk was outside of the conservative bubble are leaking in and a lot of Kirk’s fans hate it.

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  • Tollana1234567@lemmy.today ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    and he was killed by someone FURTHER right than kirk was, groypers or nick fuentes supporters.

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• vivalapivo@lemmy.today ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  everyone else

  Less than half of everyone tho

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  • Successful_Try543@feddit.org ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Less than half of everyone who voted successfully.

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    • vivalapivo@lemmy.today ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Yeah, yeah. Keep calling voting for Trump success

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• null@lemmy.nullspace.lol ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  They elected Trump to burn it all down.

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• magic_lobster_party@fedia.io ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Trump & co are working towards stripping away the power of the people who already don’t have much power. I don’t think these two events are comparable.

  Charlie Kirk might have been killed by a far right Goyper. I’m not sure what conservatives can burn down apart from themselves.

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  • DreamAccountant@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    " I’m not sure what conservatives can burn down apart from themselves."

    Fucking everything. They want to burn it all down. Even if it doesn’t affect them, they want to fuck it up.

    The less you have, the more they have. They don’t need more things to get comparitively richer, they just need to take things away from you. You wouldn’t do that, because you’re not mentally damaged, but they sure do at every opportunity.

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    • magic_lobster_party@fedia.io ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      I’m afraid that’s what they’re going to do, because they’re never rational. They will use this opportunity to accelerate their damaging politics.

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  • mugita_sokiovt@discuss.online ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Some a-hole Neigsendoig (my producer) called out said Kirk faked his death based upon something on his neck. That was to traumatize the masses, divide them, and control them. He called it Jesuit gobbledygook witchcraft.

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    • magic_lobster_party@fedia.io ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      That’s an insane take. No way he can hide that amount of prop blood without it being too obvious. He probably lost liters before he even hit the ground.

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• Marshezezz@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Hurting others is all they care about. They’re fucking psychos. Stay strapped and don’t become their victim

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• jjjalljs@ttrpg.network ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Maybe? Conservatives are mostly about feelings. The “fuck your feelings” thing was a confession and projection, as most conservative accusations are.

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• Proprietary_Blend@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  He didn’t just die. He was murdered. Just saying

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  • garbagebagel@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Oh do you mean like all the children that are dying in Gaza? No particular reason or anything, just dying. Sometimes (rarely) “killed”, by whom you ask? Just killed, no need to discuss the matter any further.

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    • Proprietary_Blend@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      What? You seem unhinged.

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  • Kolanaki@pawb.social ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I heard his neck just did that.

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    • T156@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Another victim of the high blood pressure epidemic 😔

      He should’ve tried eating less salt.

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    • Proprietary_Blend@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      It’s the old, “Smell my corsage.” bit. Updated for a vampire inclusive society.

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• DreamAccountant@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  No. Not even close.

  Conservative religious terrorists feel hate, and that hate is cultured from childhood into a life-long, fictional god-approved hate.

  Normal humans not suffering from major psychological instability don’t do this unless indoctrinated into a hate religion from a young age.

  Seeing a hate preacher stop hate preaching is a good thing that bad people are pretending is a bad thing.

  The orange pimple didn’t get elected, and that caused more confusion than anything.

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  • iii@mander.xyz ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Seeing a hate preacher stop hate preaching is a good thing that bad people are pretending is a bad thing.

    That’s not what happened though. The message got amplified by the way this murder happened, and the cheeryness of how many people reacted.

    If the self-proclaimed good guys celebrate violence over dialogue, then there’s no good. A valid conclusion were the premise true.

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• Jimmycrackcrack@lemmy.ml ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  It’s all going to be a bit presumptuous unless someone who genuinely identifies as a conservative and it’s steeped specifically in the subcultures and particular varieties of conservatism Kirk was in to chimes in, but I’m not sure that they have that feeling in the way you’re describing in response to this incident because I guess you kind of can’t really feel that way more so when you’re already at that point that you feel like things are unsalvageable. Reaching that point, or being at that point already seems to be sort of the essence of the MAGA movement and why it was so successful even as people pointed out hypocrisies amongst it’s proponents or how the tenets of conservatism seemed so changeable so long as it’s Trump changing them at any given moment. Their movement basically encapsulated this with phrases like “drain the swamp”. They already long since considered the establishment order a quagmire.

  Despite the irony that their saviour is still running for office within that system and contesting in elections within the supposedly beyond-fixing electoral system, they feel, I think, that Trump and his malleable brand of conservatism represents the final “burn everything down” revolution that will eventually result in the phoenix of the “great” America rising from the ashes. In this way it’s fine for Trump to forgo or undermine elections in future, to destroy institutions, even act in apparent defiance of supposedly core conservative ideals at times, because it’s part of the master plan to get rid of all the undesirables and defang opposition to the great new order that will eventually emerge.

  To my mind within that framework, the maximal point fatigue and the end of patience and tolerance for the status quo was long since reached and support for Trump isn’t like traditional support for a candidate in the past, it’s more like outsourcing the revolution they’d otherwise take part in themselves, minimising the risk to themselves in the process. Events like the Kirk shooting do seen dangerous though in as much as many of those supporters likely think of themselves as revolutionaries in waiting until either the official word is given or some transcendent event lights the fuse in some way that becomes clear once it happens. This shooting might be viewed in that light. So rather than reacting to it like “that’s it! I’m now fed up with this system, time to burn it down” it could be more like “that’s the signal, I’ve already packed my go-bag and the gun under my pillow was already loaded anyway”.

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• Tollana1234567@lemmy.today ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  no, because charlie kirk is being used as political capital for the base to shore up support, hes nothing more than a prop to conservatives.

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• CallMeAnAI@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  No, not really comparable. Unless your blue anon and think Trump cheated. Probably more apt to compare J6.

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• iii@mander.xyz ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  There will be radical people like that.

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• FriendOfDeSoto@startrek.website ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  This is too simplistic. I know conservative voters who didn’t vote for 47, many not even for 45. Conservative is a value set and the Venn diagram of that with MAGA is far from a perfect overlap. If you replace “conservatives” with “47’s cult-like followers” I would come closer to agreeing with your take. I do take issue with “everyone else” though. I think that doesn’t hit the mark either. I think there is more purple between this red team/blue team thinking than there are both extremes of this scale added together. Stop digging deeper trenches. And don’t shoot your political opponents.

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