Submitted 6 months ago by JewishLeftist@lemmy.world to [deleted]
I have friends who are Afghan who have had arranged marriages so this led me to be curious to ask, why does this practice still persist into the 21st century?
in many cultures it’s tradition like India, while in others it’s a nessicity because it’s illegal to look at, befriend or chat with any female
“it’s tradition” isn’t much of an explanation
What he means is that there is a deep rooted segregation of men and women. Especially in rural parts of India, where you can get to your mid-20s without interacting with a person from the opposite sex (not from your family i.e.). There are no social settings where you can “meet people” and hence for marriage, arranged is the only way.
“it’s tradition” isn’t much of an explanation
It’s not a moral answer, but it is an accurate answer.
Endogamy is one of the practices that took root in Indian society as a way to enforce the caste system. Some scholars even call it the rationale behind the caste system. It’s got it’s roots in Hindu scriptures (not hating on the religion, but it does need reformation IMO).
To read more about one of the foremost Indian/subaltern scholars on this explanation (endogamy) - baws.in/books/baws/EN/Volume_01/pdf/20
P.S I think proximity to India, trade with India could have lead to the practice being observed in Afghanistan, but it also seems like Islamic clergy (majority practice this in Afghanistan) does not have entirely progressive views on this.
Not if your culture doesn’t value tradition. Yet there are cultures where tradition is ingrained in it’s value systems.
This book review (never got around to reading the book itself) made me understand why people think “it’s tradition” is a valid explanation. I disagree still but i couldn’t find any counterarguments.
Being real, it depends on what people think marriage is.
There’s multiple concepts out there, which may or may not conflict with each other.
What really matters is the people involved agreeing on which concepts they will be engaging in. That’s the truth no matter if it’s arranged or not.
Now, when arranged = forced, that’s some fucked up shit. But the two aren’t inherently the same thing.
When it comes right down to it, “marriage” is just a word for a formalized union between people that is recognized by the community/state. How the people involved get there is kinda meaningless. A carefully arranged marriage in a culture where marriage is done for practical reasons is no worse of a concept than two random drunks in vegas getting hitched just because. It’s not even a worse concept than two people that love each other choosing to formalize their bond (and it doesn’t even have to be romantic love, good friends can sometimes a marriage make).
I’m not saying the culture in Afghanistan is good or bad. I do have my doubts that the marriages arranged are done so in a healthy and equitable manner, but that’s a separate issue from assuming that arranged marriages are somehow a relic of the past and that it should die out. They still exist because people want them to.
Others have already talked about the potential benefits of matchmaking, but not a lot of people have talked about marriage as a joining of families. There are lots of cultures where it’s normative to live together with parents and grandparents (which if you think about it also means aunts and uncles, cousins, etc.). There are lots of benefits to people who live this way - greater financial stability, access to childcare, healthcare, increased lifespan, lower depression - and so it makes sense. If you are bringing someone new into the household, it may be important for the heads of the household to weigh on or even choose the person or the family.
I understand in theory the benefits. But I practice for me It would be a nightmare. Being unable to get away from toxic family members would be horrible. And being the outsider… I’m dating you, not your family. I find the idea of “entering a new family” worrisome and distasteful.
I don’t know. There’s an even chance my parents would have been better at picking my husband than I was.
I know a young man who headed back to India for an arranged marriage. I expressed my extreme surprise that he would agree to marry someone he’d never met, and he said he trusted his parents to choose someone compatible. “After all, they know me better than anyone else.” I remain baffled, honestly. He seems an otherwise savvy, modern person. But there you go, happy to commit to a stranger.
I dread to think what kind of bloke my parents would have picked for me…
For starters my parents would not have picked my preferred gender to mate with…
Yeah exactly. Straight people, can’t live with them, yet we’re forced to 🤮
You don't commit to a stranger really. Normally you've met them and spoke multiple times and the families have spoken throughout both kids lives. I had a friend when I was young who knew her intended spouse from 7 years old and there was no plan to marry until she was finished with uni. She used to carry a picture of him in her wallet like we all had boyband members.
Even once you get to the marriage bit there's chances to say no then.
That’s an interesting concept: holding a pic of someone (presumably it gets updated every few years?) for like 15 years, imagining all these possibilities the whole time, and then finally meeting them and realizing, “nope not for me”.
People make all sorts of wrong mistakes when they are high on hormones. Your parents will likely make a much more rational and efficient choice.
I saw the non marriage related choices they made when I was a kid. Like hell I’m letting them choose my life partner. You’re assuming all parents are rational and efficient, when many, even most of them are not. They are also just people, as prone to mistakes and bad choices as you or I. If I’m getting handcuffed to a bad decision I’d like if it was at least my own bad decision.
as long as both party consent no problem right? i wish my mom do this for me. 🤣🤣
I have friends who are Afghan who have had arranged marriages
So what have they said to your question?
For some of my friends in the US, finding a nice person to date is difficult. An arranged marriage means 1.) they are recommended to a suitor and more likely to be taken seriously, 2) the suitor is recommended to them, so they are less likely to be a waste of time, and 3) someone else is also at least a little invested in the relationship. Given the above, and that the actual people involved still have to consent for the relationship to progress, an arranged marriage actually makes a lot of sense.
It’s kind of like a dating app (which also recommends a match), but if the algorithm was human and actually worked to your benefit instead of to make money.
Doesnt sound such a bad way to find a man honestly
I can think of a lot of reasons. In a rural area, finding a suitable partner is tough. Why not let a web of adults help out.
Seems more like theyll choose someone to their liking over yours, no?
Yes… and someone to their liking has the possibility to be a more stable, longer lasting relationship. Plus, they’ll come with a stronger support network.
So if you think of a marriage as being to promote stability and perpetuate humanity, arranged marriages make sense. If you think of a marriage as something based solely on romance, the experts are obviously the people getting married.
Personally, what I’ve seen in western society is that people tend to live common law, and when a couple feels like they’re fairly stable together and they want to have children, then they get married.
This obviously doesn’t work in a society where you don’t get to try out living with someone first, or where birth control is frowned upon.
theyll choose someone to their liking over yours, no?
Did you just say “All parents are evil”?
Yeah that’s part of the trade off
Sheesh. There’s a lot of weird ideas in this thread.
I made a lot of mistakes in my teens and 20s, including but not limited to my poor choices in romantic partners.
If it was culturally appropriate, it would’ve been great to have some help.
I think there’s still a big difference between getting help when dating and getting an arranged marriage
Not really. It depends on what is meant by “arranged marriage”.
It's nice when you get some help, but ihelp in the form of aomeone being forced to be your little house slave is weird as shit
aomeone being forced
That’s the thing though. An arranged marriage is not necessarily a forced marriage. If everyone is an enthusiastic participant then where’s the harm?
Because there are still places in the world where men think they’re entitled to basically own another human being simply by virtue of having been born with a penis?
You’re deliberately saying that’s the only reason and blaming that “men” only want a sex slave. Hence the downvotes.
You should get your head out of the gutter.
Wow, look at those downvotes! I guess a lot of you guys think you’re entitled to a wife wether she wants it or not lol
You guys do realize that an “arranged marriage” is not a matchmaking service, you just get stuck with someone you may possibly literally hate for the rest of your life lol
You’re simply wrong. Arranged marriage is not a strict definition of no consent. In fact, a lot of the time the girl has the final say in going ahead after an initial exchange of photos and talking face to face, at least that’s how it works in cities and urbanized areas.
The reason you have this myopic view is that you’re misled into believing that arranged marriage is forced marriage by watching horror stories on the news. We all know the News cherrypicks for shock factor.
I think you are getting downvoted because you framed it in terms of ‘entitled to get a wife’. It it is usually similarly beneficial/problematic for both partners. I have a work colleague from India who is probably going to have a marriage arranged for him in the next year. It’s not something he particularly wants, but it’s traditional so he’ll probably go through with it. It doesn’t really feel like he is benefitting from the patriarchy 🙂
Arranged marriage is not the same as forced marriage, even though the latter is often framed as the former.
Except that “arranged marriage” is a matchmaking service in many cultures where both people need to agree to get married. And in many cultures, “arranged marriage” means both the man and the woman are forced to marry regardless of whether the man doesn’t want it or the woman doesn’t want it.
There are indeed cultures where “arranged marriages” only happen if the man consents and the woman’s consent isn’t considered.
I believe the downvotes are because of how many different meanings there are to “arranged marriage” and your comment implies that the only type of arranged marriage is the only man’s consent and no woman consent version.
Yeah I imagine it often is being stuck with someone
In a less individualistic society the benefit a family gains by curating who an individual member can wed is seen as well worth it to occasionally have to emotionally and sometimes even physically beat them into submission because they genuinely hate their partner.
Holy shit…
May be better if you beat yourself into … whatever.
:)
It’s not clear to my why you draw parallels with slavery. Spending a massive sum on the days is not an intrinsic prerequisite for marriage, neither is a dowry.
All marriage is, is a formal public oath between two people to spend the rest of their lives together, to look after each other and to share resources.
As an institution, it has many benefits including to the married people’s health. It also negefurs the state in that the mutual commitment to care it tends to reduce healthcare and social costs. So the state may provide some benefits.
The main disadvantage is that she stacks the dishwasher wrong.
This is really narrow minded.
The term “arranged marriage” does not imply that the participants are not willing and eager. It’s not a disney story.
I think throughout the history the amount of men that can’t marry because they lack social dominance was too much and societies developed strategies to overcome this issue.
Personally, I believe it’s a strategy to improve social stability and wealth, after too many failed marriages based only on initial physical attraction.
aleph@lemm.ee 6 months ago
It’s probably worth mentioning that an “arranged marriage” can mean anything from when two families agree to marry off their children without their children’s consent, to when families play match-maker and set their children up on dates but their children get the final say.
I’m India, for example, you get both, with the former being more common in conservative rural areas and the latter more common in urban and middle-class areas. So it’s not a one-size-fits-all situation.
PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee 6 months ago
In fairness divorce rates are high because of young people getting divorced because they realized they shouldn’t have gotten married while they were still growing out of their early adulthood.
The only reason arranged marriage societies seem to have a higher success rate is because divorce is rare since who someone gets married to is often determined by family standing and the party who wants a divorce is often browbeaten into compliance to not jeopardize the benefit of that marriage tie.
Were divorce not so stigmatized that you yourself literally cited it as a failure metric of love marriages, arranged marriage societies would likely see even higher divorce rates than love match societies, as love match societies will exhibit low to moderate social pressure to seek marriage, while arranged match societies can feature families shopping suitors as soon as the kid hits legal age of consent, and maybe even before then if they’re especially sprung on controlling their kids’ life.
US divorce rates would be cut down by requiring a prenup to get a marriage license. Arranged marriage societies would see marriages and families implode across the land if abused spouses ever felt reasonably safe that they could divorce without being ruined for it either by their family, the courts, or the vigilante lynch mob their STBX calls up in retaliation for them trying to escape.
eskimofry@lemm.ee 6 months ago
I feel like your view of arranged marriage is limited to the US and hence poisoned by Shitty US Laws.
HeartyBeast@kbin.social 6 months ago
The first scenario is called ‘forced marriage’ in English law and is illegal. Arranged marriage is consensual
JewishLeftist@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Fair enough, it seems to have been more matchmaker in my friends case