Dave Chappelle’s Obsession With Mocking Trans People Continues in New Netflix Special ‘The Dreamer’: ‘I Love Punching Down’

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• homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  At the risk of saying something negative - no.

  I watched the last one twice just to be sure there was subtext and it was pretty astounding the disconnect between article writers, commenters, and the actual comedy.

  Did he say “I’m team terf”? He did. Yeah he did say that and that was fucked up. Agreed. (In whatever way context could be added, he was discussing the idea that one specific set of internal organs was currently capable of gestating a human. He said the terfs were saying that and he agreed with them on that point but he also discussed NC’s bathroom bill and talked at length about how it’s a bad law. He also defended trans rights at some length. But the “Dave hates trans” article writers don’t include those points)

  But the other 99.99% of the special was objectively pro-trans. Including “All trans people deserve love and respect”. The main point is you can’t get what he’s doing from text. Standup has a bunch of moving parts: voice, inflection, setup, arc, theme, silliness, parody, jokes-within-jokes, and many other aspects that aren’t available in a text-only format like a comment or an article.

  It seemed to me that he was making several really good points about being in a marginalized, oppressed minority, and the way the larger society talks about it. He used language to do that that wasn’t straight-on, direct, and clear because he’s a comedian who tells jokes and so his way of doing it is building an elaborate framework around a topic or topics, and by talking about them he’s getting across a larger message. It’s densely layered discussion underneath simple stories. He’s really good at it, fwiw, but that’s often immediately ignored and intentionally misrepresented to light him up for whatever the author wants to project.

  I’m just saying if you watch his specials with an open mind, he’s not anti-trans at all. And whenever it gets down to it, the people accusing him of it haven’t understood his show; often they haven’t watched it at all.

  Now Ricky Gervais? Fuck. That guy’s seriously anti-trans, ignorant and malicious, and putting Chappelle in with him is just wrong. Thank you for coming to my TEDx talk.

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  • DessertStorms@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Imagine jumping to the defence of this guy 🤯🤮

    He then addressed the controversy surrounding his anti-trans material, saying, “If you guys came here to this show tonight thinking that I’m going to make fun of those people again, you’ve come to the wrong show. I’m not fucking with those people anymore. It wasn’t worth the trouble. I ain’t saying shit about them. Maybe three or four times tonight, but that’s it. I’m tired of talking about them. And you want to know why I’m tired of talking about them? Because these people acted like I needed them to be funny. Well, that’s ridiculous. I don’t need you. I got a whole new angle coming. You guys will never see this shit coming. I ain’t doing trans jokes no more.”
    He then said he was going to transition to joking about “handicapped” people instead because “they’re not as organized as the gays. And I love punching down.”
    A few minutes later, Chappelle revisited the topic, saying, “To be honest with you, I’ve been trying to repair my relationship with the transgender community cause I don’t want them to think that I don’t like them. You know how I’ve been repairing it? I wrote a play. I did. Cause I know that gays love plays. It’s a very sad play, but it’s moving. It’s about a Black transgender woman whose pronoun is, sadly, n***a. It’s a tear-jerker. At the end of the play she dies of loneliness cause white liberals don’t know how to speak to her. It’s sad.”

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    • Soulg@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      You’re the exact person they’re talking about when they say you’re completely ignoring all nuance just to be offended

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    • Hackerman_uwu@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Haha it’s actually pretty good!

      I love punching down.

      That is a great punchline. He’s not saying that he - Dave Chapelle loves punching down. He’s saying: “I am a bigot said John.”

      You need to grow up.

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    • can@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Did you watch him say that or just read it and imagine his tone?

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  • 6daemonbag@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    What’s interesting is that I can’t even take this comment at face value, without further context. Is this a well-thought observation from the POV of a trans person who is intimately aware of their struggle in a broader context? Does this commenter understand the nature of comedy, or more specifically, Dave Chappelle, more deeply than I do? Can I add my opinion to this heated subject being a CIS male who is also a minority? Does any of the aforementioned even matter?

    What I can say is that I’ve liked certain parts of his comedy. When it hits it’s incredible. When it doesn’t I feel like I’m watching 80s Eddie Murphy again.

    While I believe that anyone and anything is fair game in comedy, I don’t believe that how he’s done it towards trans people has been in pursuit of comedy. In his previous specials it came across as shallow othering without the nuance that comes from actually seeing the subject as human. There’s no payoff.

    It just reminds me of my upbringing where gay (and queer) bashing for the sake of itself was normal. At this point in my life I’d rather continue distancing myself from that stuff than try to read between the lines.

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  • ersatz@infosec.pub ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    And whenever it gets down to it, the people accusing him of it haven’t understood his show

    How do you interpret this joke from his new show?

    Let’s begin with the joke that got us going in “The Dreamer.” The late Norm MacDonald, we are told, had invited Chappelle to the filming of the movie “Man in the Moon,” in which Jim Carrey played cryptic comedy icon Andy Kaufman. To Chappelle’s dismay, Carrey remained steadfastly in character while on set.

    Chappelle sighs, “I was very disappointed because I wanted to meet Jim Carrey and I had to pretend he was Andy Kaufman all afternoon. It was clearly Jim Carrey. I could look at him and clearly see it was Jim Carrey.” Which brings us to the punchline: “That’s how trans people make me feel.”

    Because the only way I can read it is that he’s saying trans people are inauthentic and fake, that they are pretending to be something they aren’t. But maybe we just aren’t as clever as you are and don’t understand it. Right? Or maybe you just don’t want to admit your favorite comic is a piece of shit.

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    • can@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      But maybe we just aren’t as clever as you are and don’t understand it. Right? Or maybe you just don’t want to admit your favorite comic is a piece of shit

      So, to be clear, you never actually wanted anyone to try and explain their interpretation of the bit?

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  • cryptosporidium140@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    I agree. Anyone who says Dave hates trans people might as well also say that people who make horror movies are serial killers

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  • roflcoptah@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Dave fell off. I’ll always remember his older stuff fondly, but his “comeback” stuff is boring.

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  • can@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Well put, far better than if I had tried. I do wish he wasn’t using his platform this way but I can’t help but feel it’s misrepresented. I watched the first part of this special for context and a lot is lost just reading the plain text without his delivery.

    If you think he shouldn’t be joking about it at all then that fine, but I think anything can be joked about and he’s trying way better than anyone else making jokes on the topic.

    And I hesitated to express that because I truly to do think I’m a good ally and I definitely want to be.

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    • gardylou@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      I’m not offended, and don’t care if he makes lowest common denominator trans jokes. I just don’t find the reactionary shtick to be funny.

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  • Pratai@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Apologist gonna apologize.

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  • DrDominate@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    No one will agree with you even though you’re right.

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  • BmeBenji@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    I think I agree*

    *with a caveat. I watched his previous special as well to understand what people were saying. What Chappelle said in that special would not be problematic if said to a smaller audience. But a stand-up special to large audience, recorded to be put on Netlfix is not the stage to say where he said what he said: where it can be taken out of context easily and used in support of anti-trans arguments.

    Maybe I’ve been looking in the wrong places but I have not seen nearly enough discussion of the idea that it’s okay to say things that are iffy in confined spaces, especially for the sake of discussion. The relationship between gender and biology, and then the relationship between biology and society, and then the relationship between gender and society are extremely complex concepts around which open discussion should be not just allowed, but encouraged. However, that encouragement should be limited to conversations with a limited audience, not ones broadcast to an untold number of people. Broadcast messaging should not reinforce harmful stereotypes and echo negative statements about people, especially marginalized people.

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• grte@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Dave Chappelle had the option to live a quiet, wealthy, incredibly comfortable life as essentially the lord of a small Ohio city. He would have been, at the very least, a name that comes up in greatest of all time comedian discussions. Instead he chose this. Dumbass.

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  • Squizzy@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    He’s a landlord looking to lock up that patch for himself, he’s not a humble farmer either he’s a cover to cover wanker.

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    • captainlezbian@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Yeah but he was extremely popular there. These days, yellow springs is a bit embarrassed of him.

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• protist@mander.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Remember Chappelle’s short standup after George Floyd was murdered where he was incredibly outraged and emotional? Now he’s aligning himself with people who think George Floyd deserved getting murdered. Chappelle is an ignorant tool

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  • MrSpArkle@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    It’s incredible how being rich has separated him from the racial struggle he has highlighted throughout his career.

    Like even if privately he thought trans people are a joke, old Chappellee might’ve seen trans persecution for what it is: kindling for the fire to burn away the rights of other minorities.

    But he is rich now. He feels safe enough that invalidating the experience of other people would never lead to the invalidation of his own, and even if he does, he can escape with his wealth.

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    • TheFriar@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Igniting racial flames is loved by the people in power. But it’s touching that class issue that transcends race where the problem lies. Because we far outnumber the rich. We forget that when we’re only looking at the skin color of everyone else in our class.

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  • 520@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Let him. Let him find out that the far right have their own, stricter limitations on what they consider acceptable for comedy.

    We don't have to forgive him for mocking trans people after he's fucked around and found out.

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    • ArbiterXero@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      He’s in for a hell of a surprise, because he thinks he’s in the club.

      And I say that with the most love and someone that’s watched all but the latest special.

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• Sgt_choke_n_stroke@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  I saw its, first 30 minutes are lazy jokes about trans people and disabled people in wheel chairs.

  The ending with the story about being a dreamer and how life can change you. Mainly in the style of a TED talk, then doing a flip calling lil nas X super gay dreamer joke.

  Curtain closes.

  That’s the special

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  • fsxylo@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    I haven’t watchedany l comedian’s special in 5 years because even then they were shitty bad take ted talks. Good to see that hasn’t changed.

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• stevedidWHAT@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  You know, they always say the loudest people have the most to hide.

  Take a look at Alex Jones lmfao.

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• wellee@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Ugh, I discontinued/stopped supporting Netflix when they first started releasing this kind of rhetoric. Sad to see I made the right call :(

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• Pratai@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  He’s found his target audience. Bigots with money.

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• steve_floof@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Cancelled my Netflix today

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  • Elocomanzo@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Lol

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• Coreidan@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  This dude is lame. None of this stuff offends me. It’s not like I haven’t heard these types of jokes before. It’s just unimaginative. It’s like he’s trying to take the easy route trying to pick off low hanging fruit, but the issue is the jokes aren’t even funny. It’s just lame.

  His problem is he isn’t putting any effort into his comedy. He reminds me of the dumb kid in class who is desperate for attention so they spout off dumb shit in attempt to gain a few laughs, but it instead just comes off as idiotic instead of genuinely funny.

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• theodewere@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  all cowards love punching down.. it's what they live for.. their hands go all clammy when they see someone bigger.. so they try their best to ingratiate themselves to the big, scary people.. lick their boots, that kind of thing..

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  • tegs_terry@feddit.uk ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Moreover, all assholes love punching.

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    • theodewere@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      satirists punch at powerful people all the time.. the powerful people generally think satirists are all assholes..

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• DessertStorms@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Imagine being such a greedy and wilfully ignorant motherfucker that you don't only, as a member of a marginalised group, openly punch down at other marginalised people, but going full mask off and admitting that you'll be targeting the next group because we're even more vulnerable.

  What a pathetic bootlicking shitstain.

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• njm1314@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Washed up and out of material

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• IHadTwoCows@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  One think that my peers on the left does that embarasses the fuck out of me is when they try to cancel art and artist without knowing anything about it. I never pay any attention to stories like this ever since that stupidassed Roger Waters “OMG NAZI IMAGERY!!” bullshit because anyone who knows anything about The Wall knows goddamn good and well that it isnt a fucking pro-Nazi part of the story and is in fact the exact opposite.

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  • money_loo@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Just going through your comment history and you may be the worst self described liberal I’ve ever seen.

    Please, tell me more of these cancellations of art perpetuated by “us” liberals my friend.

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    • therealjcdenton@lemmy.zip ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Reddit detective

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    • IHadTwoCows@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      You know that this is exactly what the thread is about, right?

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    • IHadTwoCows@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      I dont claim to be a liberal. Liberals are art cancelers.

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  • DessertStorms@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Lmfao, that's a lot of words to say you're a transphobic ableist, centrist-at-best, status quo enabling, piece of shit...

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  • pope@c0tt0n.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Roger Waters is such a nazi he sent his father there to fight them in world war 2. Such a nazi he let his dad die fighting them. What a nazi.

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  • Facebones@reddthat.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Ah yes the canceled Dave Chappelle crying about being canceled to a sold out stadium in a Netflix special

    So lib much cancel

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• the_q@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Of course he’s gonna keep doing it, it keeps his big, egotistic head in the news. Without being an irredeemable fuck he’d fade away.

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• cryptosporidium140@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  “Controversial entertainer makes yet another thing you would probably hate. Discuss.”

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• some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  I remember when I liked him.

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• can@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  At first I misread and thought “I Love Punching Down” was the name of the new special.

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  • markr@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Uh, it is?

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    • elgordio@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      It’s not. The ‘special’ is called “The dreamer”. The “punching down” comes from this part of the article.

      He then said he was going to transition to joking about “handicapped” people instead because “they’re not as organized as the gays. And I love punching down.”

      What a prat.

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    • can@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      No, it’s The Dreamer. The article says the title then puts a quote from the special after the colon.

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• Elocomanzo@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  😂 😂 😂 😂 I’m sorry but I love Dave. He’s the best.

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• halferect@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Chappelle always sucked at stand up.

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  • metallic_substance@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    [deleted]

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    • halferect@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      That’s just your opinion, I liked his sketches but his stand up never really made me laugh.

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  • Elocomanzo@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Is that the reason all the other comedians look up to him?

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• feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  I think the more you make a topic a sacred cow, the more ripe it is for comedy. I don’t actually find Dave Chapelle funny, but that’s a separate issue.

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• realcaseyrollins ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  If the rest of his routine was as funny and direct as his opening joke I can see why so many people got mad, I heard that he made fun of everybody during the show.
• Steveanonymous@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Remember when he was funny?

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