Submitted 2 days ago by gigastasio@sh.itjust.works to [deleted]
https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/e15209bc-25ac-4481-b5e9-c85a729beb92.jpeg
I’m not writing to the crackpot I’m responding to. I’m writing to the lurkers on the fence wondering if he has a valid point.
That might be why I’m so used to replies that look like long-form essays. It takes a lot more words to explain nuance and invite critical thought than it does to shitpost.
You’re never going to change their minds. That’s not the point. The point is to push back against them. So people who see the interaction will see the rebuttal and the pushback against the insanity. That’s the important part.
You don’t change the view of the person you are arguing with on the internet, you are putting a red flag so that would-be readers don’t fall into the rabbit hole.
Online debate is fun. I don’t care if it falls short of solving the worlds problems.
Online debate isn’t fun. I care if it falls short of solving the world’s problems.
Online debate is fun
Most online disagreements can hardly be characterized as a “debate”. Most of the time it’s some contrarian shitlord arguing in bad faith, fishing for gotchas, moving goalposts, refusing to acknowledge reality, and/or pretending your posts mean something other than what they say.
Everyone just wants an echo chamber and the internet is happy to oblige
You’re so right.
Well, the alternative is a bunch of crackpot comments with no pushback (except downvotes) and 3-10x less actually-decent-takes
I’ve found that, while you can’t convince a crackpot of anything, you can study them like a scientific specimen and it can be quite interesting
The number of threads that I’ve just completely abandoned on .ml when I realize I’m trying to reason with morons is too damn high.
Going to .ml looking for an enlightened discussion is like going to the zoo looking for a glory hole.
I blocked ml just this morning after such an exchange. It’s noticeable immediately 😂
"Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired.
My rule to live by (and this seems to trigger people online for some reason whenever I say it): never engage with comments online. I’ll post a comment, but >99% of the time there is no reason to reply. Someone has to make it abundantly clear that they are responding in good faith to warrant a response. My life has been much better since I started doing this and I would strongly recommend everyone try it out.
Almost 100% of the replies you receive are in bad faith? Friend…
I enjoy the banter back and forth until the person doubles down, then it’s over
In the dark times of late 2023 I had long discussions with Israel apologists on here, now they don’t seem to exist anymore. Question is, if they actually changed their mind or if they just left, and if my comments had anything to do with that anyway ofc.
They probably got called up
How else are they supposed to virtue signal?
I’m honestly not a big fan of virtue signaling, but maybe that’s just me. I just don’t think dramatically stating an obviously popular opinion, like you’re some sacrificial martyr, really adds much to the discussion. Crucify me in the comments, if you must!
no, it never does, i mean, these people somehow delude themselves into thinking it might, but… but it might work for us.
Having a real discussion online seems exceedingly rare. Like where each person really wants to find the flaws in their own position, to either strengthen it or learn why it can’t be.
It’s rare but it’s there, and when you genuinely find someone who will take your points and offer their perspective in return it can be a glorious thing.
It lives in the internet it lives in the internet oh god help me it lives in the internet
I wonder if the crackpots ever ask themselves am I the crackpot?
That reminds me, I really must check my inbox
Ahh yes the crackpot belief that it is wrong to support a genocide regardless of who is in power.
It was never about winning.
It was always about getting shit off on strangers for self-gratification, and public shaming for reprehensible behaviours/ beliefs.
No, I won’t.
I ain’t teaching a class, believe me or don’t, I dgaf.
99% of people are mostly interested in confirming their own myopic view, to the degree that they will commit violence to ensure it. If someone reaches out a hand, I will grab it, but that’s exceedingly rare and it’s not my job to fish them out of their own ignorance un-asked.
When you tell lemmy users that teachers joking about shooting their students is bad, actually.
That one was probably more about surveillance
No, they made it very clear they wanted teachers to be able to “joke” about shooting their students.
I never commented much, apart from here and in reddit, when it still was a thing. Currently I try to avoid even looking into the comment section. It’ just not worth it.
blackbelt352@lemmy.world 2 days ago
Its not about converting the crackpots, its about pushing back on insane bullshit so others are less likely to become crackpots.
Mac@mander.xyz 1 day ago
This is why dissent is important. Visibility.
cb900f_bodhi@fedinsfw.app 2 days ago
Agreed. Where do you draw the line between downvoting and potentially feeding the trolls? I’m having a hard time with that. When someone is acting like an ignorant contrarian, I’m inclined to ignore them.
blackbelt352@lemmy.world 2 days ago
I start off with the logic, and when they double down on bullshit and toxicity I just keep spotlighting the terrible rhetoric with no substance. In a “like damn dude, your 3rd grade teacher would be disappointed in your writing” way.
AdolfSchmitler@lemmy.world 1 day ago
I feel like there’s a certain point where you’re no longer pushing back against the crackpots and just arguing with a brick wall.