There is a constructed language that I suspect is free from sarcasm. (At least if it’s used formally)
Lojban, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lojban
Is there a culture/country that doesn't have sarcasm in its language?
Submitted 9 hours ago by ZiggyTheZygote@lemmy.ca to [deleted]
Comments
Toes@ani.social 2 hours ago
ZiggyTheZygote@lemmy.ca 28 minutes ago
Wow this is interesting, I never heard of this. I’m going to have to spend some time learning about it.
Yaky@slrpnk.net 9 hours ago
(Not first-hand knowledge) I read somewhere that tonal languages such as Chinese make it difficult to express sarcasm the same way Indo-European languages do, with accent and inflection.
cattywampas@lemmy.world 8 hours ago
This made me think, and I realized that non-tonal languages actually do have a tonal aspect to them.
Onomatopoeia@lemmy.cafe 7 hours ago
Non-tonal simply means the denotation isn’t carried by tone.
John McWhorter has a few courses in The Great Courses catalog about language - its pretty fascinating stuff. He covers things like tonal languages, and how even for a linguist like himself, they’re tough to learn.
ZiggyTheZygote@lemmy.ca 8 hours ago
True, otherwise it would be monotone, though some people speak in a monotone voice that can put you to sleep.
lemming@anarchist.nexus 8 hours ago
They absolutely do. Even within the same language, regional accents have different prosodies.
I recall reading a Nature article about how neonatal babies have different prosodies based on their parents spoken language that they pick up prenatally! How nuts is that!? Brains are cool.lol_idk@piefed.social 8 hours ago
Huh
ZiggyTheZygote@lemmy.ca 8 hours ago
I just did a quick research on tonal languages, it’s quite tricky for a beginner to grasp these subtle expressions. Imagine a life without sarcasm. Brutal. I wonder if they have their own way of conveying it.
lividweasel@lemmy.world 8 hours ago
They just carry around a card that has “/s” written on it and flash it as necessary
lemming@anarchist.nexus 7 hours ago
Sarcasm can be conveyed non-verbally. Through facial expressions, gestures or situational incongruity for example. The core concept is not bound to specific languages, I’d say.
Vesiiiii@nord.pub 7 hours ago
true! and makes Sense.
HubertManne@piefed.social 5 hours ago
Oh SURE. That makes so much sense that a culture would lack “sarcasm”. I can TOTALLY see that being a thing.
samus12345@sh.itjust.works 3 hours ago
ZiggyTheZygote@lemmy.ca 4 hours ago
Hehehe
Lumidaub@feddit.org 8 hours ago
It’s sometimes said that Japanese people don’t know and don’t understand sarcasm but really they just have different ways to make you feel stupid that don’t (necessarily) register as sarcasm to Westerners, like being overly polite.
zlatiah@lemmy.world 6 hours ago
I guess Japanese really doesn’t have in-your-face sarcasm now that I think about it…
Now that you mentioned it, Japanese also has a rather interesting quirk of not having what most people would consider as “swear words”. Read it somewhere that Japanese does have swear words, but they tend to be quite tame, and the words themselves aren’t “taboo” (as compared to just about any swear word in English)
Lumidaub@feddit.org 6 hours ago
Yep, certain words for example really just mean “you” if taken very literally but have taken on rude undertones (temee, kisama) to convey what Western languages would use taboo words for.
TomMasz@piefed.social 7 hours ago
Like the Southern expression “Bless your heart.”
ZiggyTheZygote@lemmy.ca 7 hours ago
I didn’t know that they used politeness that way. Interesting. Crazy enough I have not yet interacted with a Japanese person in my life.
BillyClark@piefed.social 7 hours ago
I’ve done a little bit of language studying and one thing I heard about repeatedly is that people tend to mistakenly believe in their own exceptionalism.
Like, their own native language has idioms, and they just assumed that other languages didn’t have idioms.
But we are all humans and languages are all going to exist in support of human communication. Therefore, you should assume that all languages have all major features of expression, including idioms and sarcasm.
Similarly, cultures are made from humans and to facilitate human interaction, so you should expect that things like sarcasm will exist in every culture.
ZiggyTheZygote@lemmy.ca 6 hours ago
So sarcasm would exist but not the way we understand it, does it mean that sarcasm is an intrinsic part of human nature?
dariusj18@lemmy.world 6 hours ago
A basic building block to humor is a subversion of expectations. Sarcasm is just stating things as the opposite of the intended meaning. Sarcasm is, in essence, the base level that most humor is built upon, and because of that is looked down on because it is “easy mode.”
Embargo@lemmy.zip 8 hours ago
Nooooo, not at allll. /s
Prime@lemmy.sdf.org 8 hours ago
In Vietnam sarcasm is limited. Particularly in the countryside.
ComradeMiao@lemmy.world 6 hours ago
Definitely China and maybe Japan. In American culture I feel sarcasm is fun banter but coming to China and in Chinese it just makes one look like a jerk. I’m less proficient in Japanese so I cannot fully tell how my sarcasm was taken but I’m assuming a similar reception.
Look at the translations for sarcasm: 讽刺，反话.
Looking up the definition of sarcasm in Japanese I have no idea what this kanji is supposed to mean lmao 皮肉
samus12345@sh.itjust.works 3 hours ago
Japan definitely has sarcasm, but it tends to be extra hidden behind politeness.
Codpiece@feddit.uk 8 hours ago
American.
Aeao@lemmy.world 8 hours ago
I heard a story from Japan where an American business man was sarcastic and the meeting got quiet. He was like “it’s a joke because-“
“We got it. We just thought it was inappropriate “