PLEAAASSEE PLEASE COME BACK TO THE OFFICE PLS

Submitted ⁨⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨Chadsalot@lemmy.world⁩ to ⁨[deleted]⁩

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/26a638b3-3827-4885-9841-fdd4a743dd78.jpeg

They can all fuck right off. Here’s the article if anyone’s interested: forbes.com/…/working-from-home-leads-to-decreased…

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Semi-Hemi-Demigod@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Here is a link to the actual study (PDF via GDrive)

One of the authors of this paper is from the Chicago School and the Hoover Institution. Both are pro-business, anti-worker. They also don't do any research of their own, but cite other papers that show the 5-20% reduction.

However, the methodology mentioned in the papers is suspect. First, they show that remote workers have the same productivity, but work longer hours. So the net output doesn't go down, they just spend more time working. Which raises the question: How many more breaks were they taking throughout the day? Being remote means a much more flexible schedule, so it's not uncommon to take longer breaks if you're a salaried worker.

Another study was IT professionals shifting to remote work at one company at the start of the pandemic. This one showed an 18% reduction in productivity. But considering the timing of this and that company culture and procedures can contribute to this, it doesn't seem to be a valid data point.

Then they bring up some common criticisms of WFH, which I've seen and refuted since I started working from home 2009: People can't communicate, working in groups is harder, and people can't control themselves. Yawn.

Honestly, the fact that they cherry picked hybrid work as being equally productive shows me this isn't about productivity, it's about keeping offices open. Which makes sense considering one of the authors is affiliated with groups that want to prop up the commercial rental business.

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- spacedancer@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  
  Then they bring up some common criticisms of WFH, which I’ve seen and refuted since I started working from home 2009: People can’t communicate, working in groups is harder, and people can’t control themselves. Yawn.
  
  Exactly. I work for a global company, so the way I communicate with the people I work with everyday is via zoom. What’s the point of commuting to an office just to get on zoom anyway to talk to people?
  
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  - Semi-Hemi-Demigod@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    Don't forget that Forbes and The Economist were all in favor of outsourcing jobs, which leads to me having meetings with people all over the world even when I'm in an office.
    
    So if working remotely hurts group work, a lot of it is their fault for sending jobs overseas. Unless they also want those jobs to eventually move back here so we can have happy group work fun time.
    
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- RagnarokOnline@reddthat.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Thank you for the summary! This is the investigation I was looking for.
  
  Disallowing remote with when it’s possible is anti-worker.
  
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- JollyG@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  This really isn’t a study, so much as a lit review. Sort of. Anyway, in the fully remote section they cite three studies that argue show a fall in productivity. The first (Emmanuel and Harrington (2023)) found an 8% drop in call volume as a call center shifted to fully remote work at the onset of the pandemic. But their comparison group was a group of call center employees who were always remote. So even if you buy the argument that the change call volume is solely attributable to a drop in productivity, you cannot conclude that the productivity shift was caused by working from home, the group that shifted from on-location to remote work did 8% worse than the group than the always remote work!
  
  The second study (Gibbs, Mengel and Siemroth (2022)) is, again, an analysis of call-center employees (this time in India) who shifted to remote work at the onset of the pandemic. They find no change in productivity, but that employees are working longer hours at home, which they argue means a real 8-19% drop in productivity.
  
  The final study (Atkin, Schoar, and Shinde (2023)) is another firm from India which involved a randomized controlled study which finds an 18% drop in productivity for data entry work.
  
  So, just taking their lit review at face value, one of their studies directly contradicts their argument, yet they somehow present it as if it is evidence of a causal relationship between working from home and productivity. Another study shows no effect, so they break out some razamataz math to try to turn no effect into a negative effect. Only one of the three studies shows a plausible effect.
  
  Since these are the only three papers they cite to support their argument that fully remote work causes a drop in firm productivity, let’s look at them in more depth.
  
  If you go to their references section, you find that there is not a Emmanuel and Harrington (2023) cited. Hey, that a bad sign. There is an Emmanuel and Harrington 2021, but its an unpublished paper. Maybe it got published and they just forgot to update the cite? I plugged the title into google scholar, and find one result, with no copy of the working paper, and no evidence of any sort of publication record from any journal. Plugging the title into regular google returns a “Staff Report” of the federal reserve bank of NY. So not a peer reviewed article. They employ whats known as a difference-in-difference design to compare employees who shifted from fully in person to fully remote. They report a 4% reduction in productivity for these workers, not the 8% reported in the original article. I just skimmed the article, so maybe they get their 8% figure someplace else. What is interesting to me though is that their DID models seem to show there is not any difference between the different groups for most of the periods of observation. IDK. I’d have to read more in-depth to make up my mind.
  
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- EhList@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  You can criticize the study without engaging in ad hominem attacks. The University of Chicago’s economics department is one of the best schools for economics in the world. You might not like the fact that they are not advocating your political bias but that does not change the overall quality of that program.
  
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  - Semi-Hemi-Demigod@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    Saying that a conservative economic school is pro-business and anti-labor is not what I'd call an ad hominem, but a statement of fact. Saying they want to prop up the commercial real estate business isn't, either.
    
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- HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  If the source of the article is suspect, where is the research by tech firms with a vested interest in cloud and communication platforms publishing counter studies?
  
  Also, with both studies cited, the best argument is that workers are happy to work more than 8 hours a day. Does that mean you should expect workers to be on call for longer than an 8 hour day because they are working remote?
  
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  - Semi-Hemi-Demigod@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    
    If the source of the article is suspect, where is the research by tech firms with a vested interest in cloud and communication platforms publishing counter studies?
    
    I think they're right here
    
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  - Pinklink@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    Science. Is not about winning. Fuckface.
    
    You and people like you are literally inhibiting the progress of the human race for personal gain. Congratulations.
    
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  - new_acct_who_dis@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    
    If the source of the article is suspect, where is the research by tech firms with a vested interest in cloud and communication platforms publishing counter studies?
    
    Probably swimming in their Scrooge McDuck piles of cash since WFH became more widespread?
    
    It’s the landlords losing money and the owner/C-suites not being able to see their minions in one place that are pumping out these articles.
    
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  - EhList@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    The source of the article is an economist at one of the most highly regarded economics programs in the world. Im less sure that the source is “suspect” and more that people do not like the conclusions they make.
    
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catshit_dogfart@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
I swear, when I’m called into the office I get fuck all nothing done. Like once in a while there’s a reason for me to be on site, and I do that thing and nothing else all day.

Distractions, interruptions, noise, general discomfort. Seems every time I actually start making progress on something, a person stops by my desk and that basically erases whatever I did. So it always ends with “I’ll do it tomorrow when I’m at home”.

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- thebestaquaman@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  I recognise that I’m probably a minority here, but I have a much harder time staying focused at home. At my office I share a room with a couple others, on a floor with a couple dozen more. Pretty much everything I do (outside 1-3 meetings a week) is individual work.
  
  For me, something about physically “going to work” helps me “switch on” much more. Taking breaks with other people, rather than alone, also helps me structure the breaks, and it’s not uncommon that we get good ideas or resolve something that’s been bugging someone during a break. Lastly, I really appreciate the option of “just dropping by” when I want to ask someone about something, and the fact that they can do the same to me. In my experience it’s never gotten to the point that it happens maybe once or twice a day, so it’s not really that disturbing either.
  
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  - pelotron@midwest.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    Same for me. I found having my workspace be outside my home is better for both my productivity and mood. But I will fight for whatever method of work people find works for them individually.
    
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- pirate526@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  I must be in like some weird alternate reality because my boss recognises that the office is a distraction, and doesn’t go there often himself. We go there very seldomly, primarily to catch up with colleagues, but not to work on our tasks.
  
  I get maybe 15-20% of my normal work done at the office.
  
  Granted this might increase over time if I came in regularly but it’d never touch how productive I am at home. This rhetoric about losing productivity working from home is dangerous and bullshit.
  
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  - catshit_dogfart@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    And you know, working from home I’m comfortable doing things otherwise I wouldn’t agree to doing - particularly coming online late hours.
    
    They’re doing maintenance at 7pm, that’s no big deal, I’ll adjust my hours around and make it work. Not like I’m driving or just staying late, okay I’m not doing a 12 hour day at the office. And realistically 4pm-7pm would basically just be waiting. Guess I would if I really had to, but I wouldn’t be too happy about it. Heck just last week I checked to see if something applied correctly at 12am. No big deal, just log in and make sure.
    
    And I fully recognize this could be exploited, become the norm. I’m careful to set boundaries, but I guess working from home has loosened my boundaries of what is and isn’t okay. Used to be I wouldn’t even answer my work phone after 5pm, but now it’s not so bad. Little annoying sometimes, but I’m okay with it.
    
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- CoffeeBot@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  That’s me too. Sure it’s useful once a week to sit down with my team but the rest of our work is solo or on an ad hoc debugging call where sharing screens actually makes things easier.
  
  Even worse my office doesn’t even have enough desks for everyone, and even fewer of them are properly setup with a monitor from this decade. Each of I ur 3 mandatory office days is a complete crapshoot on whether you’ll actually get a proper workstation or will you be stuck at a table with your laptop all day.
  
  They’re write offs where fuck all gets done. Some of my colleagues who are in meetings all day seem to be okay with the office but if you actually need to do work there’s little point in being there.
  
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- c0mbatbag3l@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Dude, same. I’ve never been more productive than working from home specifically because people have to engage with me via teams or email instead of barging into the office and disrupting my work flow.
  
  Shit… Did I commit that router config before Becky needed my help fixing her user error? Oh no, I did but I forgot to change the DNS on the DHCP pool so now I can’t hit the domain for remote authentication because they’re still using public DNS.
  
  Fuck! I’ll just do it tomorrow when I have my coffee in hand and my cat buzzing happily, with lo Fi beats to overhaul WAN circuits to blaring.
  
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- steebo_jack@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Im the same way, i just catchup with the coworkers and we spend most of the day chatting about various things and then a long lunch and at least two hours of meetings is basically my days in the office...at home no distractions, get shit done in the morning, make lunch, deal with any issues in the afternoon...can at least take a shit without smelling other peoples shit...
  
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- Dax87@forum.stellarcastle.net ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Im the exact opposite. At home there are way too many distractions and temptations than in an office environment.
  
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- new_acct_who_dis@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  I’m like this too, but also social. I screw around with my coworkers so much in the office. I have to be home for my own good!
  
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AccurstDemon@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
It’s both decreasing productivity AND saving the economy!!! fortune.com/…/remote-work-preventing-economy-from…

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- misterundercoat@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Reminds me of the headlines trend a few years ago when Millenials were killing everything.
  
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- GladiusB@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  That’s a pay site
  
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  - DreamySweet@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    archive.is/4fxkV
    
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Smoogs@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
“Please send the planet further into its end with global warming by heating it with transportation needs just so I can talk to your face in real”

These people should be fired. Also they should be penalized by never being permitted to have a warm shower ever again. Reused water all the way down. They can do double time when it comes to mending the planet.

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- Cmot_Dibbler@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  
  ~~just so I can talk to your face in real~~
  
  Just so we can keep the value of our office buildings high
  
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reverendsteveii@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
I’m okay with decreased productivity. I don’t own stock in the company.

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- yuun@lemmy.one ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  You also most likely don’t get paid more for being more productive.
  
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  - zikk_transport2@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    As high level manager in Barclays said - analysts are like light bulbs. You remove one, and insert another one.
    
    It all depends on the team’s and company’s values. If you are just a number to them (reddit moment lmao) - act like a number. 😅
    
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saigot@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Look I work from home, I think everyone who can (and wants to) work from home should work from home most of the time. But people are definitely less productive working from home, and I think the people who say that most people are more productive are delusional.

There are more important things than just raw productivity numbers, western workers have been working far too hard and far too long for the last half century, and I think we should return to a more humane approach to working.

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- Drunemeton@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  But how do you define “productive”?
  
  I work from home and I get the same amount of work done. However if you define it as, “Doing X amount of work in Y amount of time,” then yeah I’m less productive because nowadays instead of getting that work done in an 8-hour shift I take about 10–12 hours to do it.
  
  Same work, same day, so my productivity hasn’t changed. I just take longer to do it by taking breaks, going out to long lunches with friends, and my stress level is almost non-existent!
  
  I find that to be a very equitable trade-off: Almost no job-related stress for a slightly longer working day.
  
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  - Semi-Hemi-Demigod@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    I think people leave out the fact that their commute should also be considered time working. If you've got an hour commute and an eight hour shift, you really have a ten hour shift.
    
    So you are taking ten hours to do eight hours of work, because part of it means dragging your brain through meatspace to be there. Since you don't have to do that, you can take longer doing the actual job.
    
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  - Pisodeuorrior@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    There's also to take into consideration the fact that people experience dips of productivity throughout the day. Like, I'd never be able to start something that requires most of my brain power after 3.
    
    For others it's early morning.
    
    So, when I was in the office I would just kill time, go on coffee breaks or just di fucking nothing until it was time to go home, and I know for a fact that it was like that for most of my colleagues.
    
    No one works 8 hours straight out of a 8 hours work day. Working from home just removes the torture of sticking around looking busy.
    
    I actually complete from home the she amount of tasks I used to at the office, really, because my productivity (and that of others) wasn't constant there either.
    
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  - Rivalarrival@lemmy.today ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    
    nowadays instead of getting that work done in an 8-hour shift I take about 10–12 hours to do it.
    
    “For disappearing acts, it’s hard to beat what happens to the 8 hours supposedly left after 8 hour of work and 8 hours of sleep” – Doug Larson.
    
    An 8-hour shift quickly turns into 10-12 clock-hours when you factor in all the extraneous crap that goes along with it. I mean, just lunch and a commute easily adds 60-90 unpaid minutes per day. Add the time spent getting ready for work and settling down after work, and you’re easily up to 10 hours a day.
    
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  - HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    
    But how do you define “productive”?
    
    Studies that I’ve seen have seen both an increase in time to perform work and a decrease in quality of work.
    
    You are noting that you take more time, but you work that additional time. Not everyone does that.
    
    Increased employee happiness/retention and reduced office rent may be good reasons why to pick full remote over the increased productivity of the office, but the idea that people are more productive at home isn’t proving itself to be true.
    
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- BaskinRobbins@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  
  But people are definitely less productive working from home, and I think the people who say that most people are more productive are delusional
  
  Except pretty much every study done on this has said the exact opposite. I am much more productive when I’m home. My team is much more productive when working from home and hard data backs it up. I literally cannot think of one thing about the office that I miss or made me more productive.
  
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  - TheMinions@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    I miss distracting coworkers with conversations instead of working! /s
    
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  - Beardwin@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    My ability to close a door and sit, focus, and develop in silence makes me not only more productive, but also happier. I’ve done some of the best work of my career over these past 3+ years. I used to wear headphones 50+ hours a week, now it’s only when i go for a walk every morning.
    
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  - HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    What studies?
    
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- random_character_a@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  The few people I know who are against remote working are the type of persons that don’t have any non-family social life outside workplace and are freeking out, because their coffee break chit-chats disappeared.
  
  They still base their view on the idea that people are spineless and sooner or later start slacking off.
  
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  - gdog05@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    The ones I see who are against WFH the hardest have pretty awful family lives and don’t want to admit it to themselves. They need the break from the shitty family they can’t face or deal with more than is absolutely necessary.
    
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  - CoffeeBot@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    Yep. Either that or they’re just older and used to the way things were. Go to the office if you want but leave me out of it.
    
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- Talaraine@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  As a work from homer who gets twice as much done in half the time, I'm eyeballing your own delusion xD
  
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- CorrosiveCapital@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  All the studies show literally the opposite. Maybe you’re less productive, but that makes you the outlier.
  
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- Arbiter@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Long term burnout also kills productivity.
  
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  - GladiusB@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    And having to hire someone new and train them because the freedom they enjoyed is no longer available.
    
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  - Valmond@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    Just fire them and hire fresh people!
    
    \s
    
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- Ragdoll_X@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  I’m definitely no specialist on this topic, but to me it seems questionable to generalize the conclusions of that review to all remote workers. From section 3.a, where they analyze the productivity of fully remote workers:
  
  […] Emmanuel and Harrington (2023) use data from a Fortune 500 firm which had both in-person and remote call centers pre-pandemic. […] Using the always remote call-centers as the control group they find an 8% reduction in call volumes among employees who shifted from fully in-person to fully remote work.
  
  Extending the results of one call-center to all other companies would be very shortsighted. Still, it may be evidence that for this type of industry specifically fully-remote work may have a negative effect. Nonetheless, the authors of the paper offer a more nuanced analysis, finding that remote work actually increased the productivity of workers who were already in the company:
  
  […] We find that working remotely increased call-center workers’ productivity. When previously on-site workers took up opportunities to go remote in 2018, their hourly calls rose by 7.5%. Similarly, when COVID-19 closed on-site call centers, a difference-in-difference suggests that the productivity of workers who switched to remote work rose by 7.6% relative to their already remote peers.
  
  What their results suggest instead is that people who are overall less productive are more likely to seek remote work:
  
  Despite these positive productivity effects, remote workers were 12pp less likely to be promoted. If better workers are more concerned about being overlooked in remote jobs, remote workers will be adversely selected. Consistent with this theory, we find evidence that remote work attracted latently less productive workers. When all workers were remote due to COVID-19, those who were hired into remote jobs were 18% less productive than those who were hired into on-site jobs.
  
  Going back to the main review, the next study they cite didn’t actually find a decrease in productivity, only finding that workers spent more hours working to do the same job:
  
  Gibbs, Mengel and Siemroth (2022) examine IT professionals in a large Indian technology company who shifted to fully remote work at the onset of the pandemic. Measured performance among these workers remained constant while remote but they worked longer hours, implying a drop in employee productivity of 8% to 19%.
  
  Indeed, working more hours doesn’t mean productivity will increase, but to frame this as a drop in productivity because workers can simply do their jobs at a more calm pace seems rather disingenuous to me.
  
  Atkin, Schoar, and Shinde (2023) run a randomized control trial of data-entry workers in India, randomizing between working fully in the office and fully at home. They find home-workers are 18% less productive.
  
  Similar to the first study they found that the workers who prefer to work from home are less productive when doing so, which partially explained the lower productivity:
  
  […] We find negative selection effects for office-based work: workers who prefer home-based work are 12% faster and more accurate at baseline. We also find a negative selection on treatment: workers who prefer home work are much less productive at home than at the office (27% less compared to 13% less for workers who prefer the office).
  
  Still, because this study focused specifically on one data-entry company and only included 234 workers in their final sample, we should be careful with generalizing their findings.
  
  Ultimately even if we take the conclusions of the review at face value, the authors themselves point out that mixing remote and in-person work doesn’t seem to lower productivity, and remote work can still be an attractive option for companies because it reduces on-site costs:
  
  […] Fully remote work is associated with about 10% lower productivity than fully in-person work. Challenges with communicating remotely, barriers to mentoring, building culture and issues with self-motivation appear to be factors. But fully remote work can generate even larger cost reductions from space savings and global hiring, making it a popular option for firms. Hybrid working appears to have no impact on productivity but is also popular with firms because it improves employee recruitment and retention. Looking ahead we predict working from home will continue to grow because of the expansion in research and development into new technologies to improve remote working. Hence, the pandemic generated both a one-off jump and a longer-run growth acceleration in working from home.
  
  There are a lot of other studies on remote working with conflicting results, with some finding an increase in worker productivity, while others suggest the opposite, and as the section dedicated to COVID-19 states the effects of remote work can vary depending on the earnings and position of the worker.
  
  As some of the previous studies point out the drop in productivity is in part due to less productive workers self-selecting into remote positions, and due to remote training at the start of the job being less adequate. Hence what seems like the most reasonable solution to me is in-person training for the first few weeks, then a mix of in-person and remote work for employees who want it - and even if there is some drop in productivity, I agree with you that the improved life-work balance and worker satisfaction that remote work gives to some people is worth the cost.
  
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  - Semi-Hemi-Demigod@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    Your analysis is a lot better than mine. Thanks!
    
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- knobbysideup@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Because showering, eating, driving are productive vs get up and get started?
  
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- Valmond@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  My team was more productive at home, no open space telephoning, discussing, interruptions etc etc etc. no hours on a car or public transport, etc etc and it seems it’s the norm (or about the same productivity).
  
  What are you smoking :-D
  
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- tables@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  
  But people are definitely less productive working from home
  
  How so? I personally think it's a somewhat personal matter, but people who are less productive are home seem to be people who can't focus in general. I am far more productive working from home, mostly because I don't get distracted by others. I have colleagues who spend hours bantering only to then stay in the company until later to compensate for the banter - I'd rather get my work done so I can end my day on time and go home do the fun stuff. But I do have colleagues who say they get distracted easily when working at home and they'd rather work at the office.
  
  Overall though, my company used to be very against working from home, but after the period of mandatory work from home, management admitted overall productivity had increased. They still insist people should come to the office every now and then to maintain the "friendly" environment the company is supposed to have, though, which is fair I guess.
  
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- bsides@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  That needs to be backed up by data and not just what people think. And reliable data needs scientific study, with proper time and people for the answer to be minimally reliable. Working from home is different from the office, we can establish that - all the rest are just thoughts or delusions from both sides.
  
  Having said that, I agree 100% with the conclusion. We don’t need more productivity to make more money for profit only. We need investment for our personal lives too.
  
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- HellAwaits@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  
  and I think the people who say that most people are more productive are delusional
  
  I care more about the actual data that otherwise makes your position the more delusional one. For instance, I-
  
  There are more important things than just raw productivity numbers
  
  Ah of course you had to throw that in there to address the numerous studies that say people are more productive working from home. I think you need to check your facts before posting about this topic again.
  
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- Jaysyn@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  
  But people are definitely less productive working from home, and I think the people who say that most people are more productive are delusional.
  
  Our productivity went up across the board according to my managers. We are letting our office go & finding a smaller space for our equipment.
  
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GoddessOfGouda@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
They don’t understand that I’d do just as little work in an office as I do from home. In fact, that’s what I did, long before I worked from home. I’m really good at exploring hallways and bathrooms and just disappearing for some time.

I get more work done at home.

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- mnemonicmonkeys@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Personally, I dissappear a lot during work from home just from pooping more because I’m not stressed out due to being around people all day
  
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  - cokane_88@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    Shit job?
    
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FlyingSquid@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
I am exactly as unproductive at home as I am at the office. I’m just more comfortable.

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Knightfox@lemmy.one ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Let’s be honest, Forbes has been a trashhole for a while.

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Discoslugs@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
There’s like 50 articles i know of that say otherwise.

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- hellishharlot@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  There are peer reviewed studies saying otherwise
  
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PotatoesFall@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Sure, some people work better when surrounded by colleagues. Those people usually know that and will seek out on-site work, because it probably also makes them happier.

People who are more efficient at home probably also feel better at home and will seek out remote work.

If you want a much smaller hiring pool, more office upkeep costs and more transport emissions, sure make everyone come into the office… it’s so dumb to do this.

IMO if your sector lends itself to remote work and it’s not working for your company, you’re doing something else wrong.

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Rentlar@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Lmaooooooo Forbes runs a story on a report that’s still in draft (the references section header reads very incomplete), just to spread propaganda that “working from home doesn’t work!!!”

I like going into the office sometimes and the one I’m in is real nice, but I know some are awful, and commutes can be way longer than mine! (one-way 40 minutes by bus).

The same study says hybrid work (1-4 of 5 days remote work) provided on average a small positive change in productivity.

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dynamojoe@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Simply working leads to reduced income. If your raises aren’t keeping up with inflation, you’ve been effectively paid less with every paycheck. And now the worker is expected to increase expense and lose free time in order to get paid less, just to prop up someone else’s real estate investments? Fuck that. You want me to come in? Start by paying me more.

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stochasticity@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
My raises aren’t tied to my performance, so… ¯_(ツ)_/¯

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FlashyWierz@ttrpg.network ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
It’s funny how these kinds of articles always read exactly the same. I honestly want to know what offices they are using for these supposed metrics because it seems like people are doing everything they can to just endure and waste time while in actual offices.

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phoneymouse@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Listened to a podcast about this earlier in the week. The research test case was call center workers. Seems like bullshit to generalize like this for all work types. Also, let’s remember how high productivity was during the pandemic when everyone was working from home.

For me personally, my productivity is boosted. Without a commute I end up working an additional 2 hours a day. I have more time to focus and spend less time at lunch. In the office, my coworkers and the environment is distracting. I spend an hour at lunch with my coworkers.

Additionally, all meetings are now remote. Even in the office, people call in from their desks. There is no reason to be in the office.

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Mr_nutter_butter@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
I dunno giving people more freedom tends to improve their productivity and they get more work done in less time than some micro manging wanker

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JohnnyH842@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Linking the paper “cited” in this article here. It’s almost like the author didn’t even read the executive summary…

drive.google.com/file/d/…/view

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zikk_transport2@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
When I come to office (once per day), I come to have a great time with colleagues. No one forces me, I can work fully remote, it’s just nice to have colleagues around. We go for a vape, for a lunch, for a walk. Good times. Ohh, and also few meetings that day, since I live ~150km away from office lol.

I openly say in office that I can’t work from office. Basically socializing and that’s it. Productivity almost zero.

While on the other hand, working from home is where I shine. I can fully focus on my scripting/coding/automation stuff.

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MaxPow3r11@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
“workers want to come back to the office. It’s very good. We’re serious. They’ve told us. You can definitely trust us” ~capitalist assholes writing these “articles”

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Sarcastik@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
I’m shocked people still read: Forbes, fortune and business insider.

What ever legitimacy they once held in the business world is long gone. All three of them went click bait long before COVID (BI was always a click bait outfit) and I find their content to be on par with UK gossip rags or the National Enquirer.

Suggestion, start filtering out these three sites from your news gathering and stop sharing articles on social media from them. It’ll make the world a better place!

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_haha_oh_wow_@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Forbes is such a joke...

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Skyler@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Productivity has a long way to fall before it gets back in line with wages, so I don't think workers should be too concerned.

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AceFuzzLord@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Nothing like trying to tell your workers

Hey! We spent millions on this office space so you can work for pennies on the dollar! Come back so we can make more money you’ll never see a cent of or you are fired!

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Gamey@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Fuck Forbes!

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Schroed4@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
A lot of people seem to just be reacting to this without reading and understand. Granted, Forbs does not go sufficiently in depth to the findings to make this easy.

From what I’ve read on this, the underlying study here has valuable information that we can all use, understand, and digest.

Does your role require a lot of colaberation? You may need to ensure you have something better than email and phones to replace your ability to talk to someone who would have otherwise sat next to you.

Do you have a lot of junior employees? You will likely need to spend more effort on ensuring they get the quality training they need.

Like… Sure. A CEO could easily read the title of this article and decide to just bring everyone back to the office without thinking critically. But that doesn’t mean we should do the opposite we should be arming ourselves with this information so we can know how to counter our boss’s arguments to ensure we can get what we want. Ug.

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InvaderDJ@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
I’m sure it does for people who aren’t motivated.

But those same people don’t work in office either, they just walk around and bullshit all day.

I am way more productive at home than I am in office. Partly purposefully out of spite, and partly because my home work space is better in every way than my office environment. Quieter, more comfortable, better equipment, better internet, even better resilience because of my UPSes.

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AnyProgressIsGood@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
That’s a lie. I can never relax at work so I can never jump in at 100percent

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Frog-Brawler@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
I skimmed through it real quick, but I didn’t see anything where they defined how they measured productivity. Did I miss that part?

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018118055@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
If commercial property developers could hurry up and go bust we could be done with this sooner.

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