The problem with GIMP

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Submitted ⁨⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨corbin@infosec.pub⁩ to ⁨technology@beehaw.org⁩

https://www.spacebar.news/the-problem-with-gimp/

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cygnus@lemmy.ca ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
I think the UI and lack of non-destructive editing is holding it back more than the name, but IDK

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- pixel@pawb.social ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  the UI for GIMP is so horrifically bad that I basically refuse to use it. Not like, on principal or anything, if it improves i’d be happy to give it a shop, but because every experience I’ve had with it has been pretty immediately negative, and finding solutions to problems I have seems more effort than its worth. I want gimp to be good, it’s a mature piece of software with a lot going for it, but it also feels like its design is kind of up its own ass, in a sense? It’s weird.
  
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  - cygnus@lemmy.ca ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    I know what you mean — it’s like a 90s design paradigm that doesn’t take current conventions or best practices into account at all.
    
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  - ultratiem@lemmy.ca ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Normally I wouldn’t take comments like this to heart. But I tried the latest beta recently after maybe 15y and wow. You’re totally bang on. I was stunned how bad the UI was. How bad the app was. Upon reading this, it all just sort of makes sense.
    
    I’m sad things are so bad on the Linux front that this is the most highly rated design tool. Linux community deserves better.
    
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  - livus@mander.xyz ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Having spent ages trying to adopt it and failing like 25 years ago it’s just crazy to me that every time I give it another chance, it still doesn’t have non destructive editing and is still a non-intuitive UI from hell. It feels like they want it to be like this.
    
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- corbin@infosec.pub ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Yeah, the destructive editing and lack of a content aware fill is made me stop using it and go back to Photoshop. Krita also seems more usable these days in the FOSS world. The name is a lot easier to fix than those missing features, though.
  
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- christophski@feddit.uk ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  NDE available in the next version daviesmediadesign.com/gimp-3-0-update-non-destruc…
  
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  - bastion@feddit.nl ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Near death experience?
    
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- millie@beehaw.org ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  I absolutely love the UI. It’s literally a major part of why I prefer it.
  
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  - reka@beehaw.org ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    which is great for you, but not for anyone who has even briefly used more mainstream options
    
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- Vitaly@feddit.uk ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Have you tried to use Photogimp?
  
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  - cygnus@lemmy.ca ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Yes and it does help tremendously, but I much prefer Krita. What I’d really like is Affinity Photo on Linux, even if it isn’t FOSS…
    
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RiikkaTheIcePrincess@pawb.social ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
This really isn’t the article it wishes it were :-\ It kinda reeks of “I’ve picked a thing I want to argue and now I’m going to make up an argument for it” down to admitting that good sources aren’t available (which makes me wonder whether there are no good sources at all or just no good sources that support the author’s argument).

Bonus unpoints for the BDSM reference, just because I hate seeing that term held up as a negative or scary kind of thing and I feel like and/or choose to believe that’s the point in such an unprofessional article, rather than simply meaning “Look, it means sex stuff and that’s unprofessional.” So there. Nyeh! 😝

Also, I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone who actually used or contributed to the GIMP (or intended to) complain about the name. I’m interested in seeing some actual data on that, if there is any. Personally I wouldn’t particularly mind a name change but I can’t say whether it’d get more attention and interest than it’d lose to irritating people accustomed to the current one.

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- Hazzia@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Literally the only times I’ve heard anybody say anything about it was basically when they first learn about it and giggle for a few minutes, then get on with their lives
  
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  - dylanmorgan@slrpnk.net ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Or, you know, a school. You know, where there are children? Maybe children who have physical limitations who have been called gimps?
    
    Oh well, who cares about the educational environment and getting kids exposed to FOSS options instead of commercial software?
    
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- andrewrgross@slrpnk.net ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  To add to this, I’ve been using GIMP on and off for a decade and I’ve never given any thought to the name. It’s all capitalized. I didn’t think it was a backronym, I thought it was just an acronym.
  
  I’ve used this in professional settings (I used to work in academic molecular bio), and I was very evangelical about it, especially because we’re not doing high-level artistic work, we just sometimes need something for processing microscope images or making graphics for scientific publications.
  
  I’d say to any and everyone, “You know, you don’t have to pay an annual subscription fee for Photoshop: there’s this free, open-source program called GIMP that does most of what you need and you don’t have to pay a thing! Want me to install it for you?”
  
  I didn’t even think to be embarrassed about the name, and no one ever seemed to care in conversation. As others have said, the bigger impediments are people’s attachment to commercial software and interface challenges. This is just an absolutely silly complaint to make.
  
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- reddithalation@sopuli.xyz ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  the author of the article wrote an article a while ago about how they think steam is enshittifying and becoming bad because they got rid of mac support and some people didn’t like steam in the 2000s, so I think this person just takes controversial opinions randomly and writes about them.
  
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- flora_explora@beehaw.org ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  As far as the article goes, the word gimp isn’t necessarily seen as problematic because of its sexual reference but rather as a derogatory term for disabled people. And just because many people agree that they don’t care, doesn’t mean we shouldn’t care. Democratic decisions fall flat when they deal with issues of minorities. The large majority of people doesn’t care about disabled people. So basing ethical considerations on the majority’s opinion is really no good idea. Same goes for other discriminatory language and slurs where always the same arguments are presented. I think the article does a great job of portraying the gatekeeping biases of such discussions.
  
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  - RiikkaTheIcePrincess@pawb.social ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Idunno where you got the idea that I’m for slurs or against disabled people but it’s kinda insulting, especially when you took “sometimes said as a derogatory word” and ran it like it’s the whole point or the article over the complaint that got its own paragraph (the Pulp Fiction bit) and shared the same sentence the disability bit is in, or the one that got the whole rest of the article (that it’s vaguely unprofessional). In fact I’m getting more irked every time I go look for evidence that I’ve misinterpreted it. Reading through a couple crap anecdotes to one that actually says something, we get a VP smirking at the name, which makes me wonder whether that person’s just a hateful prick smirking at a disability term or one of the many who giggle at any reference to anything associated with sex. The other three are just “some people dislike the name.” I conclude that the article does not take issue primarily with the name being an abusive term and wonder why you’d say that.
    
    I muchly dislike careless use of abusive terms (I’ve probably got an essay or two ranting over the usage (and existence) of “crazy” and “insane,” for example) so I really don’t disagree that abusive terms should be treated much more seriously.
    
    My entire point was that the author seems to be throwing things at the wall hoping something sticks, not seriously worrying some spooky scary BDSM critter (hi, it’s me :3 ) is gonna tie them up (of course not, the ropes are for me :3 ), nor that anyone’s getting bullied by the tool’s name or it’s irritating old wounds or really anything at all. I don’t think they’re taking any of this seriously. If the term’s abusive in a way that can’t be neutralized by taking it from abusers and making it something else (an arguably valid thing to do) then that’s worth actual serious discussion and not just part of one sentence in a six-page essay.
    
    tl;dr: The article barely even mentions anything about disability and, I think, does so more as an excuse for itself than out of any serious concern for anyone. My complaint/point is, to be clear, exclusively that the article is crap and not that abusive terminology is okay. The article has failed to demonstrate any actual problem with the name itself other than handwavey “some people say” that it’s vaguely unprofessional.
    
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herrcaptain@lemmy.ca ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
It seems like the consensus of this thread is that the name isn’t holding it back. That was my thinking going into it, but the article makes some very valid points such as the name (being related to a sexual and sometimes derogatory word) making it a non-starter in some organizations.

I have it installed on all our computers at work for basic image editing, but we’re a small business and never gave it much thought. I can absolutely see it being problematic in a school setting, however. More to the point, Adobe has ably demonstrated: get them hooked on your software in school and you’ll dominate the market. Imagine if kids had been learning GIMP instead of Photoshop all these years.

Anyway, I’ve got no dog in this fight. Just pointing out what I see as a valid point in the article.

Also, I like their original name possibility of IMP much better. The mascot could have been a cute little imp instead of … whatever it is now.

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- ultratiem@lemmy.ca ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  It would be like calling Bill Cosby Gloryhole. Like the name is awful but look at the person.
  
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- unfnknblvbl@beehaw.org ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  My very large organisation has Gimp available for basic image manipulation. I’ve tried to get them to use Paint.NET instead, but nooooo… Apparently we like hitting nails with jackhammers around here
  
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Floon@lemmy.ml ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
The name holds it back more than you know. No EP or AD is wants to put “The GIMP” on their software list for a project. I have to have a conversation with someone ensuring we’re good on all our licenses, and they ask, “What is this GIMP thing?” Answering it makes me sound like an unprofessional jackass. The company would rather pay Adobe.

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- ultratiem@lemmy.ca ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  I don’t even want to tell people I use it because of its name. I would never bring it up in a work setting in this day and age when I look at Slack and see everyone list their pronouns.
  
  The fact they haven’t clued into this is just wild to me. A shame it throws the work of so many people under the bus.
  
  Also, to call it after the Pulp Fiction character is insane to me. Let alone that everyone on the team signed off on it. What were the second choices? Diarrhea? Herpes? Like dafuq.
  
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  - beefbot@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    It reeks of 12 year old boy saying “FART” to make his friends laugh
    
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- chicagohuman@lemm.ee ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  It should be renamed to GLIMPSE. Gnu/Linux Image Manipulation Program Special Edition
  
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  - ultratiem@lemmy.ca ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    YES! 👏👏
    
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  - LunarLoony@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    I liked GLIDE, which was suggested a few years ago, though I can’t remember what the acronym was now
    
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- baggins@beehaw.org ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  This. No amount of excuses or lengthy explanations. It’s childish and unprofessional.
  
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- state_electrician@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Most of the world does not have English as a first language and thus the meaning of the word “gimp” is not widely known. Personally I do agree that the name is dumb, but it’s a very English as a first language issue. My daughter is learning to do basic stuff with GIMP in school because it’s free. The name is not an issue because nobody knows what a gimp is.
  
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  - _MusicJunkie@beehaw.org ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    I’ll use the cliche meme of “I was today years old when I learned where the name comes from”. Just made the connection when I read this article, and I love Pulp Fiction.
    
    But I too am not a native English speaker. Just always accepted the clunky acronym as the reason for the name.
    
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- DavidDoesLemmy@aussie.zone ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  I guess you can’t quantify how much the name has helped it. How many people remember it because of its quirky name. Without knowing both numbers it’s hard to know if it’s a net positive or negative.
  
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  - Martineski@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Meanwhile I still don’t know what gimp is besides it being a graphics software.
    
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  - ultratiem@lemmy.ca ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    No one. No one remembers it fondly because it’s got a “quirky” name. That’s not how software works. People use software because it’s useful. Not because it’s edgy or has memorable branding. I would rather a competent design tool period. The name is irrelevant. We aren’t selling cookies or an energy drink. We are empowering people to get things done. You think your spoon with a hole in it is going to sell because you call it “Faggot”?
    
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mozz@mbin.grits.dev ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Surely anyone who feels that it’s an urgent problem can make a fork which is fully identical in every way except for the logo and name and branding

Since the amount of effort that would be required for that would be infinitesimal compared to what was already done to make the software

And then produce all these good things which you say are being held back

Or, wait, did you mean you wanted someone else to do that because you feel that it’s super important enough to insist that someone else should do it but not important enough to do yourself?

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- stefenauris@pawb.social ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  As I recall someone made the same lame argument about the name being divisive, a fork was created called Glimpse and it fell on its face not long after it was formed. Things like this are a waste of energy, nobody cares that it’s called gimp.
  
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  - Soundhole@lemm.ee ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    I mean, just because you don’t care doesn’t mean nobody does.
    
    If I was running a school where students with physical challenges attended, I would not feel comfortable asking them to use software called Gimp, so I would just avoid it.
    
    That said, I would avoid it anyways in favor of Krita, I’m just saying.
    
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  - mozz@mbin.grits.dev ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Yeah, I mean glimpse seems fine; in general it seems completely fine if someone says "hey I think this is a problem for some percent of people who have weird priorities in life because they are corporate or weird thinking, I support the idea to solve it and make a friendly name for them"
    
    It's just that if the response is "yeah that percent of people are not our problem, we just want to make this project and we did, thank you and good day", then you need to be able to say "ok I will make the fork to fix it then" instead of writing up a big blog post demanding that they need to obey you on what your opinion of the priorities for their own project should be.
    
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  - Summzashi@lemmy.one ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Judging from this thread a lot of people care.
    
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  - t3rmit3@beehaw.org ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    
    Glimpse
    
    “GNU Laughably-Insecure Manipulator Prohibit Sexy Energy”?
    
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lvxferre@mander.xyz ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
The problem is considerably smaller if you consider that the software is used by a lot more people than English speakers (both L1 and L2+). For these, “gimp” is not some sex stuff, but rather that critter chewing on a brush. And even for L2+, the word “gimp” is often missing from our vocabs.

As others said in this thread, the actual problem holding GIMP back is called user interface. It has improved, but it’s still awful.

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- Moonrise2473@feddit.it ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Agree with this
  
  I am not a native speaker and I never associated gimp with a sex meaning, even if my vocabulary is pretty expanded.
  
  It could be called “DesirePix 2.0” or “SeductionStudio 4.0” but the main problem is that it gives a worse user experience than using Adobe Photoshop 5.0 on windows 95, on every single aspect. Features, speed, UI, ease of use, and so on
  
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  - Moonrise2473@feddit.it ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Disclaimer: it’s not that I’m denigrating the devs, making a program like gimp is super fucking hard and as a lousy programmer I could never be able to make it better. Ideally, it would need some talented designers to develop a more usable UI.
    
    I see comparisons to photopea, but that’s a UI clone of Photoshop and that is not really wanted. It also didn’t come with technical debt from the 90s
    
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VinesNFluff@pawb.social ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Libre Graphics Manipulation App

LiGMA.

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- enleeten@discuss.online ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Figma Execs: What’s LiGMA?
  
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- t3rmit3@beehaw.org ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Deez GNUs
  
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darkphotonstudio@beehaw.org ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Krita has mostly left GIMP in the dust, as far as UI and basic tools. The brush engine and ability to handle large files is so much better. It’s vector tools need work, and so do the image filters and such. Even so, Krita leaves GIMP in the dust. Even the name, which isn’t great, is leagues better.

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reka@beehaw.org ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
The simple solution is to change it to a BSD license and call it BLIMP

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perishthethought@lemm.ee ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
I have no stake in this, but maybe just drop the ‘p’?

GIM avoids the slur but is still very close to the current name.

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- KoboldCoterie@pawb.social ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Plus as an added bonus we can have the ‘gif’ pronunciation disagreement!
  
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  - CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    The good old JNU licence.
    
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  - authorinthedark@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    easy enough to resolve, since the G stands for GNU just pronounce it the same as that, and since GNU stands for GNU’S not UNIX, it pronounces G the same as GNU, which pronounces G the same as GNU, which pronounces G the same as GNU, which pronounces G the same as GNU, which pronounces G the same as GNU
    
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- VinesNFluff@pawb.social ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Plus they could announce the rebrand by replacing the weird dog chewing on a brush with the same weird dog lifting weights
  
  Hitting the GIM.
  
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  - dubyakay@lemmy.ca ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Lifting brushes
    
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  - perishthethought@lemm.ee ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    I dig it!
    
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- thingsiplay@beehaw.org ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Digital Image Editor
  
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  - KoboldCoterie@pawb.social ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    “Hey, can you recommend a good free photoshop alternative?”
    
    “DIE!”
    
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  - 0x0@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    GNU Raster Editing Program - GREP
    
    Graphical Image Tool - GIT
    
    Photo Editing with Raster Layers - PERL
    
    Visual Image Manipulator - VIM
    
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- master5o1@lemmy.nz ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  If it wasn’t for StarOffice/OpenOffice/LibreOffice Impress, is have thought a rename to Impress would be a good name.
  
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coffeetest@beehaw.org ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
The word gimp in disability circles once upon a time meant “generally impaired.”

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SuperSpruce@lemmy.zip ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
I never knew the word was used as a slur. I thought it was a verb akin to “nerf”, as in “Windows 11 gimped the taskbar functionality.” I guess this word is still bad, as I want to enhance, not “gimp,” my pictures.

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nxdefiant@startrek.website ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Full name is GNUIMP anyway

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- loops@beehaw.org ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Allow me to interject for a moment
  
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  - nxdefiant@startrek.website ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    I know, I know, it’s pronounced “Noymp”
    
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vodkasolution@feddit.it ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
A rebrand, with some cool update, would be great imho

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- MaggiWuerze@feddit.de ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Like a usable UI?
  
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BlameThePeacock@lemmy.ca ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
I just use Photopea www.photopea.com instead. It does everything I need, and I don’t need to install anything.

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Shimitar@feddit.it ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Gimp issue is not the name, it’s the outdated UI and the dumb usage decisions like saving only in it’s format. I moved to krita some years ago and I think that’s the future. Gimp will still be along for a long time, and it should as its a great piece of software. Bit that’s it.

Alternatives are good, and having krita and gimp is good.

Gimp name? Never even occurred to me that could be offensive. Not American here. Americans, get out of your asses (joking)… You are often offensive to the world but you don’t care (not so much joking, and ofc I am wrong in generalization), so why should the others?

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sanzky@beehaw.org ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Curious. I always imagined it was a reference to the folklore create ‘Imp’.

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- Treczoks@lemm.ee ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  GNU Image Manipulation Program (or Project)
  
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