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Comment on The list is realistically so much longer.

abbiistabbii@piefed.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

I agree with almost all this list, but Building 7 pisses me off a bit

WhY dId BuIlDiNg 7 cOlLaPsE?

Because two of the tallest buildings in the world collapsed right next to it, causing structural damage that lead to it’s collapse.

BuT iT lOoKs LiKe A DeMoLiTiOn.

What do you think structural failure is meant to look like? Do you think it’s meant to look like Jenga bricks falling over? Like do you really think two of the largest buildings in the world collapsing next to a comparatively small building like that is going to do nothing?

The reason why you don’t see surrounding buildings damaged when they’re demolishing something like a British Tower-block is because they time the explosions precisely, shore up anything that might get damaged and evacuate the area. Do you really think the same thing would happen if two of the world’s largest towers had their floors slam down on each other like a squeezebox, and then had the cores collapse right next to them? Do you, hand on heart, think a building right next to that happening, wouldn’t suffer structural damage?

Wanna know something about 9/11? If the US government wanted to do a false flag, they wouldn’t fucking bother doing some long winded scheme involving thermite or explosives or missiles disguised perfectly as planes that can be debunked by people who think Occam is a razor company. They would just like whatever of the 101 major terror plots that are being planned against the US that they know about happen. Why spend millions of dollars doing it yourself when you can just fucking let the guy in Afghanistan and his buddies that you have been watching for a decade and change do what they have been planning.

That, or, and this is something people might not consider, as cruel, power hungry, and sociopathic as the world’s governments may be, they are also made up of people, some of those people fuck up, some of those people are morons. The idea that the everpresent They, (The Enby that controls the world) is hypercompetant and hyperintelegent is just something people believe to feel safer when they trust the government, and more powerful when they don’t.

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ricecake@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
I agree, and feel similarly about the inclusion of operation Northwoods.
It’s most prominently a horrifying plan that was rejected and remained classified, with the proposer being replaced shortly afterwards (it’s entirely possible that’s a coincidence).

Someone thinking of something horrible and then not doing it isn’t evidence that they would do something similar. There’s no particular reason to think they hid evidence because they admitted in the same deeply classified documents to doing far worse things.

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- abbiistabbii@piefed.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  I know, and you don’t need to point to Operation Northwoods to “prove” anything because American Government officials have proposed much worse things and have done much worse things.
  
  Like MacArthur proposed using nukes like conventional bombs to completely irradiate the Korean - Chinese Border. This would not merely kill Millions, perhaps billions, but it would cause a nuclear winter. For that, MacArthur was dismissed. That was a proposal.
  
  What people forget is that MacArthur fired upon American World War One vets protesting to get their War bonuses because of the depression during the Bonus War. You don’t need to make up conspiracies, what governments have already done/doing are bad enough.
  
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  - chaogomu@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    For MacArthur, that plan, while horrific, wasn’t as bad as you’re painting it, if only because the bombs would have been much lower yield than modern nukes.
    
    It would kill millions, especially if he used ground burst instead of air burst, but the actual global effect would be negligible. Cancer rates would spike in Northern Japan, but the fallout would mostly be over water.
    
    Air burst would have even less effect, because there would be no fallout. (fallout is stuff from the ground that gets mixed with the radioactive material and free neutrons in a ground burst nuclear explosion, it’s heavy so it falls out)
    
    Still an insane plan and MacArthur was justly fired for it and a bunch of other similar insanity, I just wish the Dulles brothers had been similarly fired for the shit they pulled.
    
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    KeenFlame@feddit.nu ⁨17⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    Ah, great, no fallout, fuck that is great super lets detonate millions and the radiatorn will go in the ocean yay it’s not so bad yay
    
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- Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world ⁨16⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  
  It’s most prominently a horrifying plan that was rejected and remained classified
  
  Many more horrifying plans have been accepted and are unclassified (e.g.Manhattan project).
  
  The point is that precedent exists for hijacking planes for false flag purposes.
  
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  - ricecake@sh.itjust.works ⁨9⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    There’s no precedent at all. Precedent implies that it happened, which it didn’t.
    Something being thought of and dismissed is just not evidence for that thing being done.
    
    It’s not like it was even that original of an idea. There had been two plane hijackings by cubans in the past year. Proposing “what if a third went wrong” is hardly a masterclasses in outside the box thinking.
    
    We’ve done other false flag operations. Other terrible things to domestic civilians.
    Using that time we didn’t actually do anything as an example is just odd.
    
    Personally, I think people like it just because it has a cooler name. “Mongoose” just doesn’t have the same ring.
    
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    Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    
    Precedent implies that it happened, which it didn’t.
    
    It did. A plan was formed to the level it could be presented to the president. That happened.
    
    It’s not like it was even that original of an idea.
    
    The original part is hijacking your own plane to blame it on another nation as a false flag operation.
    
    We’ve done other false flag operations.
    
    OK. So now you are that there is a precedent for attacking our own people. I think we can close the discussion.
    
    Personally, I think people like it just because it has a cooler name.
    
    MK-Ultra is the coolest conspiracy name. Operation Paperclip is the most boring sounding.
    
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- wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  You’re forgetting that the singular person responsible for the decision not to do it was assassinated shortly after…
  
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  - ricecake@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    And? What happened next? Did they do an operation Northwoods? Did we go to war with Cuba? Was Johnson more aggressive on Cuba than Kennedy, or was he actually more engaged on diplomatic fronts?
    
    I’m not forgetting anything. It just doesn’t fit with any narrative that makes a lick of goddamned sense. Like, Kennedy rejected Northwoods because he was worried the troops might be needed in Europe, so starting a war in Cuba would be a bad move.
    He was strongly in favor of every other operation they proposed as part of the larger plan.
    
    Why would a massive conspiracy exist to kill Kennedy for rejecting a plan and then… Not do the plan?
    
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    brownsugga@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    He was killed by the oil industry, with a plan carried out by George HW Bush
    
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redsand@infosec.pub ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
Ghislane was invited on the 9/11 shadow commission so I’m throwing my favorite conspiracy in the ring: A handful of people at the CIA and Mossad piggybacked on an Al Qaeda operation and let it go forward to destory evidence of crimes, steal billions and create a justification for war all in one move.

No thermite needed and it doesn’t particularly matter if the Pentagon was hit by a missile or not it plays the same. Epstein files prove the rogue elements in the CIA have been there for decades. Very little hands on work needed, mostly strategic fumbling.

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- Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  
  No thermite needed
  
  You need it for the near-simultaneous failure of every column in the WTC7 building.
  
  it doesn’t particularly matter if the Pentagon was hit by a missile or not.
  
  You would have to question how someone got a ground based missile so close to the Pentagon, then convince the FBI to confiscate all video evidence.
  
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  - redsand@infosec.pub ⁨9⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    The missile in 2001 I didn’t find unbelievable, it’s military and intel spooks, the senior brass and even people at companies like Raytheon can destroy or disappear a single ground missle system. Remember folks this all 90s computers and we now know for sure Mossad backdoored all their software.
    
    WTC-7 I haven’t looked at deep but if it were me planning I’d weaken the structure before hand chemically if possible, I suppose I’ve found my next rabbit hole.
    
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    Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    Flight AA77 on 9/11: New FDR Analysis Supports the Official Flight Path Leading to Impact with the Pentagon
    
    It looks like the size plane, but the drop from 2000ft to a flat trajectory in 20 seconds seems impossible.
    
    Lots of crackpot videos on WTC7 but NIST and Alaska are the most scientific.
    
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MousePotatoDoesStuff@lemmy.world ⁨7⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
tbh, an everpresent hypercompetent and hyperintelligent enby that controls the world would be preferrable to the current situation

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Doomsider@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
The conspiracy was that the US government waged war against multiple countries that had nothing to do with fucking 9/11.

Speaking of building 7 specifically , no building has ever collapsed this way from fire and no building will ever again. It was not significantly damaged from the towers and the official explanation was fire. The fact that you say otherwise is disinformation and shows you are full of shit

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- abbiistabbii@piefed.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  Oh wow, I guess this conspiracy has gone on for about 80 years now because they must have faked all the newsreel footage of buildings collapsing from fire bombings during the blitz. There’s plenty of examples of buildings collapsing to the fire, also has ever occurred to you that maybe, just maybe, having a Boeing 767 crash into the side of the building might have caused just a bit of damage.
  
  9/11 conspiracy theorists are so desperate to prove that 9/11 was a masterful plan by the government that only they have figured out that they can’t even use Occam’s razor.
  
  Why did building seven collapse? Because I had two of the world’s tallest buildings collapsed right next to it. It’s not that hard.
  
  Jet fuel can’t melt steel beams? Well it’s a miracle then that the plane hit the only floors in the building with no flammable material inside. Everyone in there was just butt naked on asbestos floors. And there was definitely no gas line going up to the top floor for the restaurant there. Also, can we just talk about the elephant in the room, the fact that getting hit by a 767 going full tilt would cause a lot of damage?
  
  “Oh but what about the 1945 empire state crash?” A B-25 lost in the fog is a lot slower and a lot smaller than a 767. I can think of several plane crashes where a plane crashes into a building, only four of them involved a controlled flight into the building at full tilt. Three of them are on 9/11, the fourth one was a guy copying 9/11 in a Cessna.
  
  “Oh but what about the puffs of smoke that were clearly demolition rounds?” Yeah if only there was a reason that puffs of dust and air would pop out the windows like that, maybe something like the floors coming down very quickly?
  
  But do you want to hear a couple of conspiracy theories?
  
  The American government knew that 9/11 was going to happen and sat on their hands to let it happen so they could pass Draconian laws to roll back freedoms and rights and give them the excuse to go into places like Afghanistan and Iraq.
  
  The agencies that you think are hypercompetent sociopaths with special technology but letting them do a false flag attack are not actually hypercompetent and dropped the ball so badly that over 3,000 people died.
  
  Both of those conspiracy theories are just as enraging and dare I even say even more likely then the US government orchestrating 911 like a villain in a marvel movie. If you think the US government is hyper competent and in control of everything, let me remind you that during the biggest crisis of this decade, the president of the United States on live camera suggested that people should inject themselves of bleach to kill covid.
  
  Sometimes you just need to take Occam’s razor to a conspiracy theory. And if you think that a plane crashing into something couldn’t cause structural damage severe enough to cause a building to collapse, go look up the aftermath of Lockerbie, or any plane crash featuring buildings.
  
  And if you’re going to look at me right in the eye and tell me that having two of the world’s biggest buildings collapse right next to a building would not cause structural damage to said building, I think you need to touch grass because that’s Hobbyless behaviour.
  
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  - ivanafterall@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    
    Why did building seven collapse? Because I had two of the world’s tallest buildings collapsed right next to it. It’s not that hard.
    
    You can’t just casually drop a historic confession like that on us, Goddamn.
    
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  - Doomsider@lemmy.world ⁨23⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    Hey, you just spread misinformation. Don’t get your panties in a twist.
    
    You implied that WTC 7 collapsed because because buildings fell into it. That is not what officially happened. It may have led to a fire, but it was the fire that supposedly compromised the steel so the entire building collapsed at once.
    
    I can’t help that you did this. You could just correct yourself.
    
    As I stated the real conspiracy is that we attacked two nations that had nothing to do with 9/11.
    
    Please save me your one man quest to disprove truthers. I have studied all this for years so I can definitely say there is some truth to just about every conspiracy theory. That is what makes them believable.
    
    Truthers represent a wide range of beliefs and many are experts in their field who pointed out many of the holes in official explanations. Not that they were right, but it is always important to challenge official US explanations.
    
    The B52 was about 1/20th of the weight of a 767. The World Trade Centers were actually designed to withstand the impact of a 707. The 767 is still about 4 times heavier. I am sure people don’t realize the massive weight differences at play.
    
    The reason most Truthers are obsessed with the three buildings collapsing in this way is because it never happened before. In fact, even partial collapses are pretty rare for steal building and complete collapses from fire are pretty unheard of let alone three in one day.
    
    Of course the unique design of the towers along with the effects of a pancake collapse are given as a good explanation of why the towers fell in this way. WT7 collapse was also related to it its unique structure of a heavy penthouse and a substructure that interfered with the support columns and required transfer trusses.
    
    Elements of the government were aware of 9/11. The CIA and FBI were informed multiple times and failed to connect the dots so to speak as detailed in the 9/11 commission report. Intelligence is hard yo. Without a smoking gun like an order to ignore information you could probably just chalk it up to the reality of information overload.
    
    Funny story, I knew an Iraqi National who surrendered during Desert Storm and was brought to the US. The government was training him how to fly commercial airliners even though his formal training was in the Iraqi police force as a weapons instructor. Strange coincidence for sure.
    
    All this energy you spend is of course misplaced. It is a clever distraction to what the real conspiracies such as WMD in Iraq and Al-Qaeda in Iran. The US government certainly lied about these things to promote an illegal war of aggression.
    
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    LH0ezVT@sh.itjust.works ⁨10⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    
    I can definitely say there is some truth to just about every conspiracy theory.
    
    Mate… no.
    
    The earth is not flat.
    
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- Alwaysnownevernotme@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wang_Fuk_Court_fire
  
  They probably just built it way, way, way, worse than these Hong Kong highrises.
  
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  - Doomsider@lemmy.world ⁨23⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    No WTC 7 haf some really weird architecture. Otherwise it would have just burned out without collapsing.
    
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    Alwaysnownevernotme@lemmy.world ⁨17⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    No?
    
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DillDough@lemmy.zip ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
Multiple organizations within the US government received warnings about and had information on the 9/11 attacks like a month before hand, we knew it was going to happen and let it, that’s a fact.

To be fair, I doubt that is what whoever made this had in mind but still it is a valid piece of evidence for not trusting the government.

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- Earthman_Jim@lemmy.zip ⁨23⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  It doesn’t take controlled demolitions or fake planes with hidden missiles or anything convoluted like that, just money. I can’t prove it, but I believe there are people in this world who cultivate extremism like it’s agriculture, and for the right fee you can order up some extremist robots to do some extremist shit.
  
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captainlezbian@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
Also giant buildings are designed to withstand a huge amount of torque/moment. They act like sails in the wind and it’s a catastrophe if they fall over. But additionally you really want to minimize sway so people at the top don’t get seasick in their office/apartment. But then there’s the destruction element of it. You want to do everything in your power to make sure that if a building you design to go in Manhattan of all places has to go down it goes directly down and not across the street into another building like a tragic line of dominoes.

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- HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  i have been in well designed towers and poorly designed towers. the poorly designed tower was 13 floors high. it swayed like a boxer. the well designed tower also swayed like fuck, but you couldn’t feel it thanks to earthquake stuff.
  
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- abbiistabbii@piefed.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  Basically. Buildings don’t fall like Jenga bricks. When something bad happens, they tend to implode, be it on purpose, if an airliner crashes into them, or if the aforementioned building collapses next to you and causes you structural damage.
  
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Wilco@lemmy.zip ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
No steel frame buildings in history have ever collapsed from fire. It has never happened… except for those three in one day.

Building 7 literally just caught fire and then fell. Pretty fucking weird.

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- brownsugga@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  I always point to the mandarin oriental fire in like Beijing or something; can’t remember the city… but a steel frame building was COMPLETELY engulfed in flames for like 12 hours straight and didn’t collapse
  
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HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

What do you think structural failure is meant to look like? Do you think it’s meant to look like Jenga bricks falling over? Like do you really think two of the largest buildings in the world collapsing next to a comparatively small building like that is going to do nothing?

like this but rotated 90 degrees why
Image

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- vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  That is weirdly satisfying.
  
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  - HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world ⁨21⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    Especially when you’re all stopped up
    
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d00ery@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
Inappropriate ads Image

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- ChicoSuave@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  What’s inappropriate about it?
  
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  - d00ery@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    Lol perhaps contrasting is the a better word.
    
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- Calfpupa@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  Only as inappropriate as a Christmas/Easter ad on any page about the anglosphere.
  
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Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world ⁨17⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

causing structural damage that lead to it’s collapse.

Nope. The debris from WTC 1 caused structural damage to the southwest region of WTC 7—severing seven exterior columns—but this structural damage did not initiate the collapse.

What do you think structural failure is meant to look like?

It’s meant to look nothing like an implosion from a controlled demolition.

The reason why you don’t see surrounding buildings damaged when they’re demolishing something like a British Tower-block is because they time the explosions precisely, shore up anything that might get damaged and evacuate the area.

Which is why the clean destruction of building 7 is so suspicious.

Do you, hand on heart, think a building right next to that happening, wouldn’t suffer structural damage?

This is the opinion of NIST. i.e. The official US government line.

Why spend millions of dollars doing it yourself

Because you want billions of dollars of Iraqi oil.

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Chippys_mittens@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
Yeah I’m not big on the 9/11 conspiracy stuff. But, I do think some kind of shady shit was going down to motivate the attackers aside from hate for the US.

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- surewhynotlem@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  You think hate for the US is insufficient?
  
  I think you underestimate our reputation.
  
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KeenFlame@feddit.nu ⁨17⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
Made up of people…

That sentence…

It is made up of flesh long lost to greed deeply drowned in overwhelmingly sad ego trips manipulated to do the bidding of hypercapitalist enormous autonomous demonic entities, that’s also “made up” of people, each and every single one replaceable. The vd gone the layers gone the politicians gone it will regenerate new flesh and this flesh will do its bidding or also be made to let go of its lucrative benefits that include feeding its family and another of flesh will assume his duties until that flesh no longer can and then may we finally have peace as the planet has been divided evenly among the entities and they have eaten each other until one remain.

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