Comment on Hopefully, he will be 6 underground by that time.
panda_abyss@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
Also you guys are fucking idiots.
“If you don’t pick a better candidate then I’ll just let the one who wants concentration camps and to erase all of Palestine win”
Like, seriously, look at the big picture. Do you think Kamala who would have still supported Israel would have been worse for Gaza? It’s literally not possible. You guys fucked up the entire planet I’m your pride.
Now I’m not saying the DNC isn’t wrong, they’re fucking morons. But you guys just gave up on global warming, gay rights, trans rights, Gaza, any sembles ce of the environment, public health, the entire “justice” system, the courts, your immigrant neighbours, all people of colour on the US, and women’s rights.
I cannot express how much I fucking hâte people like you right now.
Go ahead and downvote me. “But it’s not right”. Yeah? We’ll choosing to let this happen is leagues worse. You guaranteed the genecide in Gaza would go be the worst it ever could be you fucking morons.
Go out and pressure the DNC to not be shot, but don’t fucking say there’s no difference between Kamala and Trump.
But you guys just gave up on global warming, gay rights, trans rights, Gaza, any sembles of the environment, public health, the entire “justice” system, the courts, your immigrant neighbours, all people of colour in the US, and women’s rights.
You forgot to include USAID.
Anyone who keeps clutching to Gaza and says Kamala would have been as bad as Trump can suck my dick.
I forgot a ton of things.
AI, your data privacy, your parents retirement, NATO, electric cars, green energy, antitrust, the chip shortage.
There’s a huge list.
Yup
It’s fucking mind numbing
Yes! Primaries primaries primaries.
Go and primary every single DNC candidate that isn’t good enough, get better democratic candidates wherever you can. Put even more energy into primaries than into the election itself! But when the decision comes down to Churchill or Hitler, you better vote for fucking Churchill.
Everything else is just throwing the minorities and the future under the bus as a cost of doing business.
Wanna know how to pressure the DNC to pick a candidate you like? Go fucking vote for them in the primary!
Typically, the primaries get 1/10th the turnout of the general election. That means that a very small number of people can sway the primary. Go stump for your candidate. Make phone calls, talk to your family and friends and community, explain why your candidate is the better choice.
The lack of a primary in 2024 was fucking awful, but guess what? Chances are, there is a primary going on for your state right now, get to work!
Try telling that to someone who supported Bernie, but before you do that you might want to go back and refresh youself on what happened. The DNC is a diseased carcass, change isn’t possible.
Before I consider this complaint, I need you to go back, and get the primary results from the 2016 DNC primary and post them here.
I know what the results are, but I need to know that you know before we discuss further.
Do you really think the vote results of a corrupt election somehow make that election not corrupt? How are we still having this stupid ass argument in 2026?
I guess Putin really does have 88% support in Russia. That’s what the vote says after all, so it must be true.
The DNC even said that they don’t have to run fair primaries, because they technically don’t. God damn it wakup!
In 2016. 2020 it was fair and he lost. I voted for him but supposedly all his other supporters didn’t. That’s democracy. You don’t count if you don’t show up.
but before you do that you might want to go back and refresh youself on what happened.
He lost? Yeah, fuck primaries forever!
did bernie lose because people didn’t vote for him? or did he lose because the democrats establishment push him out?
for what you said to be true, the democrats need to abolish the superpac system, which they won’t do.
Same thing applies to you.
Before I consider this complaint, I need you to go back, and get the primary results from the 2016 DNC primary and post them here.
This continues to be the stupidest, least productive way to think about elections. The lesser of two evils argument may be true, but it failed to motivate people to vote for Kamala in 2024 (or Hillary in 2016, for that matter). You can bitch about protest votes or an apathetic electorate all you want, but at the end of the day, you don’t win elections if you don’t get votes, and, “yEaH, bUt TrUmP iS wOrSe,” didn’t get votes. If the Democrats once again run a candidate who doesn’t reflect their base and once again lose the election, it will once again be their fault for repeating a losing strategy that produces losing candidates.
But you can bet when they lose they’ll blame everyone else in the room but themselves. I don’t think the neo-liberals of the party realize how much bad blood they’ve been generating.
It’s getting hard to tell if they even want to win. Even a year ago it might be plausible to argue that centrism is a smart strategy, but at this point, with victories like Mamdani and Mejia, it’s just demonstrably wrong. Hell, Platner is still leading Mills in Maine even after the whole, “having a Nazi tattoo,” thing. If the Democrats are still pursuing centrism going into 2028, then they have to admit they would prefer losing to fascists than adding progressives to their tent.
They know, thats why every discussion revolving politics to the left of the republicans devolves into “what the fuck you gonna do, vote republican?”
Abuser mentality. Hostage politics. No democracy to be had here.
The US election system is stupid, antiquated and corrupt. As long as it isn’t reformed (of which it itself prevents ever happening), the lesser evil is all you will ever get from that system.
They are idiots, because they can’t reason and forecast outcomes well. If YOU cast a protest vote, then I understand your comment.
Can you please explain a strategy (other than lying) that would have appeased the dummies?
She should have lied to overcome their childish minds.
I did vote for her. I live in a comfortably Blue state, but I agreed to vote for her in solidarity with some of my swing-state friends that didn’t want to vote for her.
As for strategy, well, Kamala’s entire strategy was, “our base is already going to vote for us, so we’re going to instead pursue disaffected Republicans by campaigning with Lize Cheney and Barbara Bush.” That choice depressed the turnout of her own base and cost her the election. Motivating Democratic voters instead of chasing imaginary moderate Republicans would have been a better strategy, and it probably had a bigger impact than the Gaza protest votes.
Anyway, let’s just say you’re right, and the electorate is full of childish leftist dummies that won’t vote for Harris because they’re idiots that can’t see the big picture. Well, then what? You can piss and moan about these voters all you want, but you seem to think they were the deciding factor in 2024, so what are the Democrats gonna do to win them over? It seems unlikely that all of these people you think are idiots that can’t reason or forecast will be radically different in the next two years, so are the Democrats going to do something different in 2028, or have you just resigned to losing now?
That choice depressed the turnout of her own base and cost her the election.
I completely agree. That was disheartening to experience.
what are the Democrats gonna do to win them over?
I’m sorry for the frustrated name calling. It’s probably not helpful. I’m just so so frustrated.
For the immediate term, they should be lied to.
In the long term, we need to force their hand, and then abolish the Democratic party.
are the Democrats going to do something different in 2028
No.
have you just resigned to losing now?
The current trend has me worried.
I will likely die for this.
Go out and pressure the DNC to not be shit
How about you go out and draw the rest of the owl there? The main power we have is our right to vote, and you’re saying we shouldn’t use that to pressure the DNC to put forth a pro-worker anti-war candidate.
And how is not voting for them going to do that? They’re fine with you not voting for them, and even losing in the case of DNC leadership. Always have been.
You want to put pressure on them? Be the candidate to primary the party line candidate in Democratic primaries. Yes they will use every structural advantage they have against you. But if enough people do it constantly. The cracks will widen and show. Otherwise they’re happy to receive donations and funding from the wealthy, even if they don’t win.
To be clear, I think all national parties should be outlawed. Generally state wide ones as well. But unless you can change the political reality we are in. The only possibility is not just holding off the worst possible candidates such as trump. Though more should have shown solidarity against him. But being the candidates we want to vote for. And not letting some uninterested complacent national organization make those decision for us.
Not voting for them has done just that! We’ve seen real change at the DNC, and that is only because the neoliberals have been completely discredited. They can no longer claim the narrative of being the adult in the room, the logical choice for electability.
Party power structures only change after the party loses.
I’m a leftist who absolutely voted Harris, because the other option was horrific. I was not in love with Kamala but I did feel that she was a faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar better option.
Please shut the fuck up.
Youre spreading the propaganda that helped them justify their actions.
Oh ok my bad. I’ll stfu now.
I CaNT bElIevE PeOpLE wOuLD dO ThiS!!!
Meanwhile, you’re pulling provably false both sides bullshit. What a tool you must be.
They literally do think everything that’s happened under Trump would have been the same under Kamala.
They are deeply unserious people who have no ambitions for politics and care only about purity-testing.
They would have been different, but Kamala wouldn’t have been different enough.
Biden won and Trump instigated a coup over it. Why is that treasonous rat not in prison? Would Kamala have put him in prison? Oh, she should have said so. I had no idea.
They would have been different, but Kamala wouldn’t have been different enough.
What an unbelievable load of bullshit.
We’re going to be trapped inside this pit for as long as you can’t realize what good leadership looks like, man.
Gaza would have been worse, because Netanyahu would have kept up the bombing.
However, Kamala would never have defunded USAID, so those million and a half people who are dying right now from starvation and disease would be alive.
So, honestly, not voting for Kamala was a bad idea.
But it’s still because of the DNC corporate donors that Trump is in office right now, because they refuse to allow the people a progressive alternative.
Blame is pointless. I am talking about what needs to change. Shouting at reluctant third party voters will do nothing but raise your blood pressure.
Campaigning for the downfall of Chuck Schumer, there’s a worthy cause.
Blame isn’t pointless. If you don’t blame people they’ll never feel responsibility. Not unlike a spoiled child who is never told they’ve fucked up.
Assigning responsibility is how people grow. It’s vitally important and blame for abdicating it is part of that.
That is something that people only understand at their own pace. Being shouted at, shamed by others, tends to reinforce the problem. It makes them defensive.
I get that venting can make the people who were right feel better, but that’s usually all it does.
For a good example, the left have been right about the problems in the DNC since 2015, and it has not helped whenever we point this out. Shouting at conservative Democrats has only made them more defensive, and alienated both sides from each other.
As usual, the solution is hard. Work towards building power and organisation from the bottom up, and don’t waste time hoping that the people who benefit from this mess will magically decide to do the right thing. I wish I hadn’t wasted so much time doing that.
Focus on what people need, pick three or four straightforward policies, and do everything you can to push those forward and promote your sincere effort to do so.
Don’t accept any funding from groups who want things you do not want, because that funding will be a chain holding you back.
Don’t lie.
Don’t. Lie.
People, the ones you want support from, aren’t fucking stupid. Don’t lie.
Gaza would have been worse, because Netanyahu would have kept up the bombing.
Gaza would have been worse had Kamala won? That’s what you’re suggesting? Or have I misread?
I cannot express how much I fucking hate people like you right now
Yes because this is about your emotions and needing a satisfying story to direct your anger at, not reality.
I’m just pissed off we let America have so much power over the word as it is. They’re one country, for fuck sake, not the World Police.
Silver lining: Trump just killed that role like a newborn baby in lake Michigan.
Elections are in some way a validation of the system. The elites point to the election any time someone complains about some policy. The entire system has been consistently getting worse regardless of who is in power for at least 30+ years. The only way we have to express our displeasure is to vote out the incumbent. I’m confident that even if Kamala had won, things would have gotten worse. Maybe they would be worse at a slower rate, but they would be worse. We need to see beyond electoral politics. Every time you vote, you are granting the rich permission to continue to fuck you regardless of who you voted for.
The majority of eligible voters already don’t vote. Low voter turnout does not embarrassment the rich and powerful, it just makes the system easier to control. Fewer voters means fewer people to answer to, fewer people to influence, and fewer people to shuffle around through gerrymandering.
For fuck sake, they are consistently trying to make it harder for people to vote. They want lower turnout. They know their most loyal supporters will still vote. They’d much rather have their base be the only ones bothering to show up to the polls. They don’t care about legitimacy, they care about winning.
Every time you vote, you are granting the rich permission to continue to fuck you regardless of who you voted for.
And do you think that, by refraining from voting, you would somehow deny the rich that permission? That’s probably why all the openly corrupt, unapologetically authoritarian politicians go out of their way to ensure everyone is able to cast a ballot, right? Because they know that, the more people vote, the more permission the rich will have to fuck everyone. That makes a lot of sense. Thanks for your enlightened contribution here.
Hey man there’s other ways to get their dick out of your ass. Lenin, Fidel and Mao figured it out.
Sure. Start the revolution. We’re all waiting for you.
That is… Unless you’re full of shit and won’t be the first one to raise your fist right? Just waiting for everyone else to do the dirty work of the revolution right? Why aren’t you in the papers yet for your revolutionary work?
All they can do is create this strawman because deep down they’re ashamed.
You’re right. Liberals do love their straw men.
Like a literal child.
“fuck democracy! You are required to vote how I want you to vote! You don’t have a choice!” /s
I assume all those “vote third party both side same” people were bots or Russian trolls. Obviously trump was always gonna be way worse
Are you saying the entire dbzer0 instance is administered by a bot?
Well, he did leave you another option.
True. And with the way dbzer0 embraces red-fash because they both hate libs so much…
They aren’t. That’s an easy scapegoat. Influenced by Russian propaganda, sure, but we’re all influenced by propaganda. The vast majority are ordinary citizens, who are as convinced of the righteousness of their beliefs as anyone. Dismissing them, en masse, as bots and trolls isn’t helpful.
The fact is, many of them have very valid points. Where they need to be fought is, very specifically, when they encourage non-voting. There’s no good argument for non-voting, and it’s easy to defeat them there.
That’s fair and a much better response than mine above. I’m just a bit disenfranchised from it all, especially the non action and non voting suggestions of many on the left.
But you are right, it’s basically a center right and a far right party, and that super sucks and needs to be complained about a lot.
I don’t think they’re all trolls. I think there are a few right-wing trolls who got stupid people to buy into their astroturf campaign and then it took off from there. IIRC, one of the people in Mi openly admitted that he was a Republican and saw it was an easy wedge issue to get people not to vote.
People don’t like being insulated and taken advantage of. Why is that so hard to understand?
So your feelings are more important than the oppression of all the minoritzed groups?
You have piss poor reading comprehension. I suggest you enroll in an adult learning class at your local community college.
Yes. For sure with Harris things would be much better here and there. Not voting is only makes things worse and we know GOP is very unpopular now the only strategy is to infiltrate Dems and manipulate people to not vote again and elect them again.
Dems are so easily to manipulate this why things are bad. If you don’t vote it’s your fault how things are
Hi. I’m not voting for your sorry ass candidates. Cry all you want.
holy based
U7826391786239@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
i’m glad i’m not the only one shitting on 3rd party/abstainers every chance i get. high and mighty morality police, usually saying shit like “kamala was always going to lose” while simultaneously trying to push the 100% guaranteed fail action of 3rd party or sitting out.
whether they’re actually russian propaganda trolls or not hardly matters–they’re shit human beings either way
chuckleslord@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Agreed. But I’m not going to publicly endorse a dead-end DNC loser before it’s necessary. The DNC needs to act like people aren’t required to vote for them and field a candidate that can actually win votes.
Enkrod@feddit.org 2 weeks ago
That’s valid! More than valid it’s necessary. Show resistance against weak DNC libs AS LONG AS POSSIBLE, but possible ends when it’s time to vote. Then always choose the option that is best or, if necessary least damaging.
If you don’t vote against the biggest fascist, you are helping fascism along.
DagwoodIII@piefed.social 2 weeks ago
WRONG!
You hype the Dems in public every chance you get.
The GOP once elected a dead pimp because they don’t care.
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Serinus@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
On the other hand, this is a fine time for this conversation. We do have roughly a year to find a candidate that’s not fucking Newsom just because he could meme for a minute.
I don’t mind a few memes in our politics, but I do want there to be some kind of substance under the memes. And not the substance Magats have found under theirs, 💩.
U7826391786239@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
no. this shit is the reason we’re in this situation, innocent citizens getting rounded up, deported, murdered. because so many people wanted to moralize, “vote their conscience,” “wE dIdNt GeT a PrImArY”…whatthefuckever, while the rest of us were shouting that everyone’s top priority needs to be keeping trump out of the white house.
so again: if it ends up that newsom, or harris, or a fucking lobotomized muskrat ends up being the candidate–VOTE FOR THE FUCKING MUSKRAT instead of trump, or 3rd party, or, ffs sitting out
i will die on this hill. you might too
Serinus@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I mean, I generally agree with you, but like most things this isn’t black and white. It’s a nuanced thing that needs to be handled with care. I get it; Large movements are terrible at nuance.
While we’re two years out from the start of the campaign, we can certainly encourage the Dems to find an actual progressive.
Hillary was better than Newsom. It’s funny that California Dems are blasted as the most liberal, when they might be the most conservative Dems outside of West Virginia.
Yes, anything is better than fascism. That point was more important 18 months ago, and might be more important again 12 months from now.
UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml 2 weeks ago
Standards are low.
hark@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
How do you think we got trump in the first place? Democrats kept moving to the right and making things worse until a candidate like trump could seize the moment. So yeah, you will die on that hill because it was a hill built by voting the “lesser of two evils” while both parties moved to be more evil, until we’ve got the current level of evil we have now.
Wakmrow@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Lol this is so fucking funny. My vote wasn’t a fail.
itistime@infosec.pub 2 weeks ago
If you didn’t vote for Kamala, then you’re part of the problem