Submitted 5 months ago by Don_Dickle@lemmy.world to [deleted]
Gender and separation of humans based on those lines have been a thing for longer than humans even called themselves “humans”, and transpeople threaten that. So it triggers a flight or fight reflex in people who aren’t used to the concept.
I find when people know me for awhile and THEN find out I’m trans, their reaction is less “I’m scared”, and more “That’s neat”, but if people find out I’m trans before they get to know me, they will be hostile the whole time.
I only know of one, and she’s an expert at everything related to fiber channel and tape drives. So I guess it might be that US conservatives are ideologically opposed to cheap long term offline storage.
This is America, we store things in the iCloud or the garage.
First, I’d challenge the ‘most people’ part. In my experience most people really, truly do not care one way or the other if someone is trans. But to be fair, this may vary between countries, societies, etc.
Next, aside from its obvious use as a political wedge issue, and generic fear of the unfamilar, I’d argue that a decent portion of conservatives (in a North American sense) fancy themselves as Christians. There are ideas in the bible re: the ‘place’ of men and women in relation to one another that make deviations from this (gender identity not match genitals, homosexuality, etc.) aborrhent. I personally think those people are missing the actual good things to take away from Christianity, but I’m also not a Christian, so idk.
I think it’s silly, really - coming out and living as a Trans person, if that’s something folks feel they want/need to do, is one of the most radical exercises of a person’s autonomy and personal freedom. I’m for it.
Complete aside, but it’s always weird to have conversations with folks who like the idea of transhumanism who are transphobes. Met more than one conservative person who is like this, which is really the only time I give trans people much serious thought beyond “Oh look, a fellow human. Neat!”
I live in texas and transphobia is prevalent enough that misgendering is the norm once people hear my voice. I get looks of disgust often enough that I’m used to it, so yeah it varies from place to place and some people don’t know how bad it is because they dont experience it.
Ugh - that’s fucking gross of people, and I’m sorry to hear that.
My argument was more when considering ‘most people’ - most people is a lot of people. An individual doesn’t really interact with most people. But that said, you can certainly interact with ‘enough people’ that an expectation of shoddy treatment is pretty reasonable (if a pretty bullshit set of circumstances individuals shouldn’t have to suffer).
Pedantry on my part, I guess, along with likely blindspots I have as a cis male. Fuck transphobes…such meaninglessly hurtful bullshit.
If I remember correctly uvalde was a trans person, but most of the time its just people using one good thing about themselves to justify being horrible. Think holier-than-thou type shit.
You are parroting a lie
Damn if only I acknowledged somehow that my memory was imperfect and I may be wrong, maybe by saying smth like “if I remember correctly”.
Uvalde shooter was not. www.bbc.com/news/61607042
It was Nashville, not Uvalde.
Off topic but it’s quite fucked that there are so many of these that we mix them up ooof
Rural IL here. Full of conservatives.
Nobody here cares if you are trans. Couldn’t care less.
Never met a school church shooter either.
Most conservatives I know think it’s dangerous to entertain trans ideas in children. They say kids don’t know what gender really means because they haven’t experienced puberty yet but the most effective time to use hormone blockers is before puberty. So they feel like it’s the parents who are encouraging use of hormone therapy for their kids because the parents are brainwashed by left media, and essentially committing child abuse.
To them I say:
Except for the fact that puberty is an actual thing that occurs without outside influence. HRT isn’t
As others have said, one did shoot up a school (and the MSM hid the manifesto & details forever). As your comment proves, they found out the shooter was trans & they tried to memory-hole that real hard. But that’s besides the point; evil & depraved people will be evil & depraved people. Doesn’t matter, trans or not.
Main conservative talking points against trans people: They do not produce children, trans people are categorized as having a mental illness that should be treated instead of chopping off body parts, they really don’t like when health insurance money and/or tax dollars pay for elective surgery & treatments, fully transitioned people have their genitals mutilated & they’ll never experience an orgasm, once they’re chopped up a not insignificant number of trans people experience regret (permanent consequences for acting on temporary feelings), and trans people are more likely than the general population to have depression & commit suicide.
With well-intentioned conservatives, it’s actually coming from place of care & compassion. They don’t want people to hurt themselves, deprive them of families & fullness of sexuality, or see them despair post-op & kill themselves.
Idk why OP feels it neccesary to conflate trans people with school shooters.
Three components im enthusiastic to educate about on that note:
And 2) Shooters have been overwhelmingly men, overwhelmingly white, overwhelmingly boys-and-men. A majority of manifestos have direct mention of Right-wing extremism, oft inspired by the Turner Diaries and the like.
www.reddit.com/r/Anarchism/comments/…/gbesw1p/
the short version is that it starts in the home.
Much violent crime can be traced back to cultural factors. Violent crime, such as murder, would probably decrease dramatically in an anarchist society because most of its causes — poverty, televised glorification of violence, prisons and police, warfare, sexism, and the normalization of individualistic and anti-social behaviors — would disappear or decrease.
The differences between two Zapotec communities illustrates that peace is a choice. The Zapotec are a sedentary agrarian indigenous nation living on land that is now claimed by the state of Mexico. One Zapotec community, La Paz, has a yearly homicide rate of 3.4/100,000. A neighboring Zapotec community has the much higher homicide rate of 18.1/100,000. What social attributes go along with the more peaceful way of life? Unlike their more violent neighbors, the La Paz Zapotec do not beat children; accordingly, children see less violence and use less violence in their play. Similarly, wife-beating is rare and not considered acceptable; women are considered equal to men, and enjoy an autonomous economic activity that is important to the life of the community so they are not dependent on men. Regarding child-rearing, the implications of this particular comparison are corroborated by at least one cross-cultural study on socialization, which found that warm, affectionate socialization techniques correlate with low levels of conflict in society.
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/peter-gelderloos-anarchy-works
As for the re-emergence of hierarchies, I think that the notion of anarchism is essentially ‘checks and balances’ turned up to 11. You get to a society that’s an ecosystem of fluid social relationships, and an anti-authoritarian culture which makes it impossible in a million ways for anyone to accumulate power. If we could get there, I think it would be more robust than current liberal democracy, where the branches of government can cooperate and you need buy-in from less people to enable power to be accumulated.
IMO, good anarchist praxis is to 1) encourage and popularize anti-authoritarian parenting methods and 2) build strong community groups and mutual aid networks.
I concur with this analysis and conclusion.
Chopped off, mutilated, never enjoy life again.
Lmao tell me you’re a bigot who’s never met a trans person, without saying so.
Thats not how any of this works.
Surgery is almost always for adults, does not work by “chopping” anything. It is a delicate and complex medical and surgical procedure. (You’re fine with the mutilation of intersex infants genitals and the mutilation that is circumcision being forced on infants, tho, I bet, as your Daddy says that’s ok, huh?)
Quite the opposite from never enjoying carnal-consensual-interactions again, I and many of my trans cousins are simply listening to our bodies tell us that it needs to change to properly experience it. For most, it takes the form of revulsion-from-the-incongruence of having been born with parts that make them want to dissociate.
This is such victim blaming. It is impossible to go through a world that seems like it wants to drink your blood, just because of your intrinsic traits – without accruing trauma.
I guarantee you’re not an expert on the well being of the meeting of the mind and the brain, or “mental illness” to take the thinking of ableist, nazi-originated, antiquated past-medical-thought.
And you’re certainly no expert on anyone else’s body.
So dont be surprised when this kind of thinking turns you into someone that people dont want to be around.
… … …
Nooooooooooooooooooobody cares.
The question was: “Why does it seem most people, mainly conservatives, against Trans people? Unless I am wrong I never heard of one shooting up a school church or whatever. The ones I have met have been pretty cool.”
I carefully listed off all the conservative talking points about why they’re anti-trans. Which answers the question. This…is what…conservatives…think.
I never claimed to be an expert on any of this bullshit; I’ve got better things to do with my life. Goodbye.
because they’re gay and weird or christian and dumb
the existence of GNC people undermines the thin facade of identity that people construct based on their assigned gender roles. they lash out against internal discomfort
I never heard of one shooting up a school church or whatever.
First off, one must be very careful of generalizing to an entire group from the actions of a small sample [1]. Using the metric of whether there have been trans people who have engaged in mass shootings is quite reductionist, and is a faulty generalization — if I am to interpret what you said to mean that “conservatives” are “against Trans people” because they think that they are responsible for “shooting up” schools and churches. Second, to address your belief, to my knowledge, there has been at least one instance of a school shooter being trans [2].
1. “Faulty Generalization”. Wikipedia. Published: 2024-03-25T17:50Z. Accessed: 2024-11-23T02:49Z. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faulty_generalization 2. “2023 Nashville school shooting”. Wikipedia. Published: 2024-10-28T23:08Z. Accessed: 2024-11-23T02:51Z. en.wikipedia.org/…/2023_Nashville_school_shooting.
politifact.com/…/no-evidence-growing-trend-trans-…
A white cis het boy/man shoots up a school how often?
Hell of a ratio, I guarantee it.
Thank you for the source! One critique that I have of it is that, while it does state that trans people are 4 times more likely than cis people to be victims of violent crime [1], it doesn’t appear to answer the question of rates of perpetrating violent crime between trans and cis people — well, aside from conjecture [2][3].
1. > According to the Williams Institute, a public policy research group on sexual orientation and gender identity issues at the University of California, Los Angeles, transgender people are four times more likely to be a victim of violent crime. In 2022, the institute found that LGBTQ+ people are nine times more likely to be a victim of violent hate crimes. [§"Victims of violence. ¶2.] 2. “When you have this kind of coordinated, concerted campaign against a community, the community becomes insular, their vulnerabilities spike, and that’s not when they turn to violence,” she added. “The violence is going to be against them. It’s very unlikely the violence will be perpetrated by them.” [§“What the evidence shows”. ¶3.] 3. “That doesn’t mean that trans people can’t be violent or extremist — anyone can,” Asal said. “But, as far as I’m aware, there is no higher uptick among transgender people than anybody else. Could there be growing anger? Yes, certainly. Do I think they are going to be radicalized and turn to violence? Maybe a couple, but I haven’t seen any evidence of an overall trend.” [§“What the evidence shows”. ¶6.]
I’m pretty sure they just think it’s icky.
In my experience and speaking with transphobes I think it’s caused by our current culture of trying to force people to accept them.
Most people in my experience are happy not knowing or ignoring signs that someone is trans or gay. However when you start bringing it up in casual conversation or being overtly flamboyant for lack of a better term people start giving push back on it. I would compare it to the vegan stereotype. No one cares you’re vegan but when you constantly bring it up or try to make every conversation about you being vegan people get annoyed.
We as a society need to accept that racists and transphobes won’t change. You can’t force them to accept anything.
conservative ideology is built around hate, and thus attracts hateful people, or indoctrinates people susceptible to to such ideology. There must always be some outside group to blame every problem on, and to feel superior to without having to actually be better. Conservatives have enough hate to go around that they’re not focused exclusively on trans people, but this flavor of hate is the new hotness for them.
Because there are only 2 possibilities:
or
They are in fact mutually exclusive. So what do you think the moron cult members will choose, the option that requires deprogramming… or the option that aligns with their stupid bullshit cult beliefs?
What is the ideology you’re talking about? I’m not sure I follow your example, are you comparing suicidal ideation to being trans and suggesting the same treatment?
You’re fucking gross
so the only redeeming value of trans people is that they don’t shoot up schools?
/s
A lot of conservatives want to simplify life because they have a simple mind.
Well you have to understand everyone takes it as settled science to varying degrees.
Some think theres nothing left to learn, all settled and people need to stop asking questions and just agree. On the other end are those who think its pure fantasy and that, since its not science at all, must be being used as a tool against children.
I’m not sure how big those two ends are, but theres the people in the middle too, who think there is likely something going on here but aren’t sold on the current implementation. Some are hesitant and want more time and research. Some are concerned that societal pressure is trumping doctors advice.
Maybe theres some other group I’m not thinking of but either way, the angriest group isnt always the biggest, but will be loudest. That might skew your perceptions of how people generally feel on average.
Why does it seem most people, mainly conservatives, against Trans people?
First, I think it’s important to establish the validity of the claim, and the assumptions being made, since you cited no sources, nor did you provide any definitions, nor did you specify any assumptions; I will presume that by “conservative”, you are referring to American Republicans. Second, it does seem that the majority of Republicans are against trans protections [1].
1. “Americans’ Complex Views on Gender Identity and Transgender Issues”. Author: Kim Parker, Juliana Menasce Horowitz, Anna Brown. Publisher: Pew Research Center. Published: 2022-06-28. Accessed: 2024-11-23T02:35Z. pewresearch.org/…/americans-complex-views-on-gend…. - Image
I’ve never met a person against trans people. I talk to lots of people as a Uber driver in Denver. What state do you live in?
I am currently stationed in Chicago. And I have met trans people across the US and none of em have been bad or had a bad attitude they are pretty down to earth and pretty cool.
Because most people don’t actually know any trans people, and find unfamiliar things to be weird and scary.
But also because terrible people have weaponized those feelings for personal political gain. Most people probably wouldn’t give a fuck, even if they found them weird, if talking heads weren’t stoking the flames of bigotry.
Trans people give conservatives feelings in their pants and scare and confuse them. They lash out in fear, hatred, and self-loathing.
What?
Because they tell teenagers that you might accidentally kiss a man and let hormones and immaturity handle the rest.
I don’t encounter a lot of ads but I was just listening to the Economist talk about this one which the trump campaign played over and over again and it struck me as a small window of an answer to your question.
The ad strikes me as cruel but the thrust (and I imagine there’s a blend of fact and fiction) is that Harris used tax money to pay for a woman’s sex change after being convicted of first degree murder and serving life in prison. They also have Harris saying she was using her power to “push forward the movement and the agenda.”
Even for supporters of trans rights, I imagine not everyone loves having to defend using tax money to pay for expensive gender surgery, especially on criminals.
So I could see people, who might otherwise be supportive of trans folks in their own lives, being “against trans people” on an issue framed like this.
Because people don’t shut up about it.
Among the many factors, I think that we shouldn’t lose sights on the fact that statistically there is a percentage of any population who has no “normal” sexual orientation. This means that there a percentage of conservative/religious fundamentalists who are non-heterosexual CIS in the closet, who fight against sexual diversity to defend their chosen belief structure. There cannot be queers, thus they are an abomination that must be stamped out.
From what I have seen, it seems trans and gay people are used as a “bar.” Since these people aren’t inclined to be gay or trans they believe these conservatives believe themselves to be above the bar they have set. Racism works the same way.
They tried to put their religion into politics and it backfired; now their religion is just random politics with a few supernatural beliefs that do not effect their day to day actions.
At this point I’m assuming that loads of them either want to be trans, want to have sex with a trans person, but they feel they can’t do either because they were told it’s evil
It’s the same as the gay hating, any guy very visibly hating gays always ends up snorting cocaine from a gay escort dick.
ogmios@sh.itjust.works 5 months ago
Largely because it’s very obviously being used as a political propaganda tool, and any criticism at all is being treated as a horrific crime.