Every time i have to use windows again my IQ slips a point or two

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Submitted ⁨⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨stappern@lemmy.one⁩ to ⁨mildlyinfuriating@lemmy.world⁩

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DarienGS@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
What’s wrong with this? Every OS has permissions that stop users from breezily deleting system files.

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- stappern@lemmy.one ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  this is not the system folder, different drive, old windows install
  
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  - lemmyvore@feddit.nl ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    If you try to access an old Linux install you could run into the exact same problem. Both Linux and Windows nowadays use filesystems with permissions embedded into them, so if the user on the new install doesn’t match the old one you’ll have a problem.
    
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  - Carighan@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    Well then change the owner and toss the old folders. Or just format it?
    
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  - Aasikki@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    Why wouldn’t you just format the drive if it had an old windows install?
    
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- vojel@feddit.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  laughs in Linux…
  
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  - fushuan@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    laughs because it has the same level of protection as other OSs and thus is quite secure in that regard, right?
    
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- LoafyLemon@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  This seems to be an external drive, not the boot drive.
  
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skullgiver@popplesburger.hilciferous.nl ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Always fun to see people with limited understanding of ACLs struggle with filesystems that apply them.

Windows has a lot of features built in to prevent users (and malware) from breaking their system, such as the “system” and “read only” flags. I suppose explorer could’ve asked you to elevate, unset any flags, alter ownership, and delete anyway, but that’s doing a lot of work you don’t necessarily intend to do when you click “delete”.

Linux has this too; try the following:

mkdir -p /tmp/test/deleteme; touch /tmp/test/deleteme/deleteme.txt; chattr +i /tmp/test/deleteme /tmp/test/deleteme/deleteme.txt # If you want to apply the "drive from different system" equivalence sudo chown -R 12345:12345 /tmp/test/deleteme

Now try deleting the folder /tmp/test/deleteme from your file explorer:

A screenshot of Gnome’s Nautilus telling the user that they do not have the necessary permissions to remove the folder “deleteme”

Frustrated, you may try to force the issue by forcefully removing the file through the terminal:

user@box /tmp/test $ sudo rm -rf deleteme Place your finger on the fingerprint reader rm: cannot remove 'deleteme/deleteme.txt': Operation not permitted user@box /tmp/test $

Alright, what if I…

user@box /tmp/test $ sudo -i Place your finger on the fingerprint reader root@box ~ $ cd /tmp/test root@box /tmp/test $ rm -rf deleteme rm: cannot remove 'deleteme/deleteme.txt': Operation not permitted root@box /tmp/test $ whoami root

The only way to get rid of these files, is to set the right flags:

user@box /tmp/test $ chattr -i deleteme deleteme/deleteme.txt user@box /tmp/test $ rm -rf deleteme
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- GiuseppeAndTheYeti@midwest.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Linux is so cool, but boggles my mind. I just simply don’t have enough time to really get a good grasp on the terminal and commands associated with it. It took me 3 days worth of attempts from 8am when my fiance leaves for work to 5pm to finally get a pi-hole set up in tandem with a self hosted VPN with wireguard. I just got it up and working on Wednesday this week. I know there’s a tutorial on the pi-hole website, but with no Linux terminology experience it was tough to know what I was supposed to be typing into the terminal. Several times I was typing:
  
  sudo -i cd /etc/wireguard umask 077 name=“client_name” echo [interface] > “name”
  
  I thought the name= line would tell the terminal that I wanted to replace all the following lines that “name” should be replaced automatically. Then I figured out that they were just telling me that I needed to replace “name” in their terminal commands with what I wanted to name the associated files I was creating lol. It was a real man…I’m a fucking moron moment.
  
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  - skullgiver@popplesburger.hilciferous.nl ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    Learning to work with any operating systems beyond the most basic apps takes a lot of time. Whatever OS you started out with probably took you a few years to get into, but as a kid you don’t notice that you’re learning anything special. And, to be honest, Linux GUIs lack a lot of quality of life features. At least in Windows you can use the mouse to make files read-only, in many Linux utilities you can’t even see or modify such attributes.
    
    Getting Wireguard and Pihole working without any prior Linux knowledge is an impressive feat on its own! Putting three days of work into it shows more dedication than I would have, I hope it paid off when you finished!
    
    Also, you were so close with the name thing. In most shell languages, after typing name=“client_name” you can use the dollar sign to refer to the value you set, i.e. $name.
    
    If type this:
    
    name="Eve" echo "Hello, $name!"
    
    you would see Hello, Eve!
    
    This would actually work perfectly:
    
    user@box ~ $ name="client_name" user@box ~ $ echo "[interface]" > $name
    
    This would create a file called client_name that contains the line [interface].
    
    I see a lot of tutorials online that had special characters removed (i.e. the dollar sings) or had broken script because quotes were turned into fancy quotes that are meaningless to the terminal, often because those guides were shamelessly stolen from other sites without checking if they even worked. It’s easy to miss these things!
    
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  - intensely_human@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    The first progress is always the slowest.
    
    It won’t always take you an entire day to get anything done in Linux. That’s just the pace you’re at as a beginner. As your knowledge expands you move faster.
    
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- 1984@lemmy.today ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  It’s not very commonly used though. I have seen this command only a few times. I don’t feel like Linux users are missing stuff like this.
  
  But thanks for the long comment, was a nice read. :)
  
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  - skullgiver@popplesburger.hilciferous.nl ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    It’s not commonly used (on the usual popular systems) but for “simple” systems (like Ubuntu) it should probably be used more. There are reasons to remove /usr or ~, but I think requiring a special command to prevent accidents would solve more problems than it causes.
    
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PhiAU@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Of the many grievous faults of Windows to pick on, file system permissions like this are not one.

As admin you have permission to change ownership and override permissions. And a relic copy of the OS folder is going to have some of the most restrictive permissions possible.

I would expect similar behaviour on any modern OS.

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- Psythik@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  OP is probably young and doesn’t remember the pre-Vista days, when viruses ran rampant because the concept of admin rights didn’t exist yet.
  
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  - MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    Oh, it existed. It was just much more difficult to use and required an understanding of what you’re doing to set it up first.
    
    The UAC version from Vista+ is implemented by default and far easier to run/manage for the typical end user. Most users find it hella annoying, but it’s easier than the alternative, since they’ve never used the alternative, they don’t know that.
    
    Basically, you’d have to create an admin account, and a user account, then intentionally not use the admin account except for admin things… I did this, and it kept me out of trouble in a couple of close calls. Windows power users trend up like to endorse or brag(?) About how often they reinstall, and bluntly, I almost never reinstall my PC. I just don’t bog it down with garbage constantly. :)
    
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- gornius@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Actually ACL on Windows is very bad. Recursively changing owner of directory can take minutes, same operation on any UNIX-like OS takes seconds.
  
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Mininux@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
I hate windows too but this is something normal that also happens on Linux. Take a drive from another system and you won’t be able to edit its files without root access.

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- stappern@lemmy.one ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  but i am administrator on this computer
  
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  - WalrusDragonOnABike@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    How is Windows in the 2nd drive supposed to know that?
    
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  - KyuubiNoKitsune@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    That’s really bad logic and you’re missing the point here. trusted installer is the owner of the folder. The fact that it’s an old windows drive or that your an admin makes absolutely no difference. It’s a file system ACL, those ACLs don’t just magically disappear from the drive when it’s no longer the system drive.
    
    Take ownership of the folder, add your account or the everyone security group with full access permissions and then delete it.
    
    I’m sorry to say this but the fact that you’re complaining about this is more a reflection on your lack of understanding of how file system ACLs work, in any OS, than anything else.
    
    The braincells were not there to begin with, you didn’t lose them. <= that’s a joke, I’m not trying to be mean.
    
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Guajojo@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
This is perfectly normal, what you’re looking for is a more insecure OS maybe?

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- Holzkohlen@feddit.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Windows, the first thing that comes to mind when someone talks about security. lol
  
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- stappern@lemmy.one ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  How is it insecure that your os does what you want ? XD
  
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  - TurboFool@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    Because what people want is often very, very stupid. And also because the difference between “you” and a malicious app acting like you is non-existent. If you can easily change vital files, so can any drive-by app you accidentally run.
    
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Nerd02@lemmy.basedcount.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
What’s funny is that this is exactly what I feel like any time I have to use Linux.

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- stappern@lemmy.one ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  but linux does exactly what you want , ive never been pulled a number like this.
  
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  - JokeDeity@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    Lol. That’s such a silly biased thing to say.
    
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  - Tolstoy@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    I don’t use Linux but I assume you’re the kind of person typing sudo before every command ^^
    
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  - zephr_c@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    Linux does exactly what you tell it to. If all your experience is with systems designed by engineers trying to guess what you really want, that can be confusing and intimidating.
    
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SeeJayEmm@lemmy.procrastinati.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
I don’t think windows has anything to do with your IQ slipping. You don’t understand how NTFS ACLs work and despite several people trying to explain them you stubbornly refuse to learn or reevaluate your stance.

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- MomSpaghetti@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  But Windows bad
  
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intensely_human@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Oh noes … folder permissions?

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HellAwaits@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
I mean, do you not understand the concept of ‘don’t mess with critical files if you want your system to last’? This isn’t necessarily a bad thing about windows.

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- PlaidBaron@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Windows is designed for the average user and does very well in that regard. It prevents people with very little computer knowledge from totally messing things up.
  
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- stappern@lemmy.one ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  These are not system files. Not from this os.
  
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glimse@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
It’s still a protected folder even if it’s not the active OS and that’s a good thing…? It will permanently break the install, how is Windows supposed to know you’re never going to use it again? It doesn’t see you as the owner and prevents you from messing it up.

But if you’re sure you want it gone, you need to Take Ownership

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tomi000@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
I dont even know anymore. These “Windows bad” posts get so stupid by now I can only assume it is satite at this point. Im just waiting for “Task Bar is 20px high instead of 21, literally unusable”

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- TheGreenGolem@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Yeah, like linux doesn’t do this shit all the time. Permission denied always. I’M YOUR FUCKING GOD, DON’T EVER DARE TO GIVE ME PERMISSION DENIED.
  
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krondo@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Uga uga i dont know anything to do with computers but linux good windows bad give me upvote now uga.

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eezeebee@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. Unfortunately it seems that you cannot be trusted with installation :(

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stappern@lemmy.one ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
and yes this is a nother drive with a different windows folder im not trying to break the system.

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- Laser@feddit.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  It’s the same for Linux though, if you mount any drive, your user or rather UID/GID needs appropriate permissions to perform any action. Can even happen that you mount a disk with your old home directory somewhere and can’t access it because your UID changed between installations (though it’s 1000 for most people).
  
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  - stappern@lemmy.one ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    hmm i just tested it i can nuke any folder under / no extra work required.
    
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- Sonotsugipaa@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Don’t worry, you don’t need to try in order to break Windows
  
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  - stappern@lemmy.one ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    who the hell is this TrustedInstaller dude anyway???
    
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- silverwing@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  You can use a tool called “winaero tweaker” and there enable an option called “take ownership” then when you right click the folder, you can take ownership of it and do whatever you want with it. Just be absolutely sure that it’s not your main windows installation otherwise it’ll be painful.
  
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  - stappern@lemmy.one ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    thanks,i just switched back to linux and did it from there. personally using proprietary software to make proprietary software more usable sound like the plot of a horror movie.
    
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cokane_88@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
OP is getting murdered in the comments…

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- 1984@lemmy.today ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  People are really harch with their downvotes. It really wasn’t that bad. :)
  
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- stappern@lemmy.one ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  I’m alive and well,also I don’t see downvotes :)
  
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Pantsofmagic@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
The one folder where this is really painful is the WindowsApps for Windows store stuff. I had one situation where I reinstalled Windows and I had a couple of hundred gigs of games in a WindowsApps folder. The new install wouldn’t use the folder, so it became wasted space. The new install also wouldn’t let me delete / reclaim the directory no matter how much dicking around with permissions I did. I think I had to kill it from either Linux or a USB Windows installer command prompt.

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- Redex68@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Yeah, I don’t agree with the post, I think for an OS like Windows, which is used by a lot of non-techy people, things like OP’s post should be the norm, you shouldn’t be able to brick your sistem easily.
  
  But I feel your pain for windows apps, they’re such fucking cancer. I had the same problem when I tried to uninstall Sea of Thieves because the installer / Microsoft Store app was broken.
  
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nottheengineer@feddit.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
That’s why I carry a ventoy with debian LTS. I went with the full KDE pack, so I get the KDE partition manager in a live boot environment.

I highly recommend it.

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- stappern@lemmy.one ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  ventoy rules i got a 256gb nvme filled with isos
  
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dreadedsemi@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Slips 2 points? now at -20.

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Johanno@lemmy.fmhy.net ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
sudo !!

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CookieJarObserver@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Step by step guide:

Take out the power plug

Find sledgehammer

…

Profit
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STRIKINGdebate2@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
I have decided to close this comment section due to ops toxic behaviour. Honestly, I should of intervened much sooner

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bircelak@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Every other time I use windows, there’s some convoluted ‘issue’ that takes an hour of Googling and trial and error to fix. So frustrating. If you just use a browser and a few light apps to do your job (everyone except developers, in my company), save yourself a ton of wasted time and use a Mac.

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- Threegreenhouse@lemmynsfw.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Every other time use Mac OS, there’s some convoluted ‘issue’ that takes an hour of Googling and trial and error to fix. So frustrating. If you just use a browser and a few light apps to do your job (everyone except developers, in my company), save yourself a ton of wasted time and use a PC.
  
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  - stappern@lemmy.one ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    A PC,with Linux. Win win.
    
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  - bircelak@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    Ha! Touché PC guy, touché. My comment is just my opinion, but not any more valid than this
    
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EatBorekYouWreck@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Install wsl and rm -rf that shit

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- stappern@lemmy.one ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  AH!
  
  you wish
  
  [gb@DESKTOP-PO3H6KM d]$ sudo rm -rf Windows/ rm: cannot remove ‘Windows/addins/FXSEXT.ecf’: Permission denied rm: cannot remove ‘Windows/apppatch/AcRes.dll’: Permission denied rm: cannot remove ‘Windows/apppatch/DirectXApps_FOD.sdb’: Permission denied
  
  its still mounted through windows so same limitations, you would have to pass the drive to WSL and then delete
  
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  - EatBorekYouWreck@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    sudo rm -rf that shit?
    
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Stilicho@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Sudo

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