Submitted 6 months ago by vis4valentine@lemmy.ml to [deleted]
People who know other languages tend to model their sentence structure on their native language, and swap word for word. This can lead to conjugation issues, e.g. “I am feeling” instead of “I feel.”
People who only know English often base their understanding on the way language sounds, not how it’s written.
Ironically, the former is usually much more readable than the latter.
“I am feeling” means something very close to “I feel,” whereas “steel” means something completed unrelated to “still.”
“Sushi it’s.”
Its a shame, I would of sworn I had a list of all native speakers and there annoying errors, because that list would of been longer then big ben.
*must… not… react, must… not… react… … . . . .
I'm gonna swap the question around: Are native English speakers having an easier time reading this, than non-native speakers?
Personally, as a non-native speaker, I feel like having a stroke in trying to decipher it. It's like my brain sees regular words, but not the one it expects to follow on the previous ones.
As a native speaker, it's easy to understand (because it's phonetic) but painful to read because the grammar is so terrible.
Yeah, I didn’t have a problem reading it. The most awkward part was the weird comparison to Big Ben. The wrong “there” was the first thing to make me pause and then I saw the joke.
It’s easy to read, but it also reads like the written equivalent of nails on a chalkboard.
Weirdly I was only about to fall for the “then” at the very end of your sentence
Of have drives me crazy!
because that list would of been longer then big ben.
You usually don’t compare bells by their length, weight is much more common. Anyway, Big Ben wouldn’t be a particular heavy one.
So hard to understand ><
Having learned English in my teens, I found that native speakers would make errors about things that sound the same (their/there, would of/have, should of, etc). Probably they learned to speak it before writing it, which is the other way around for me (and maybe other ESL speakers, IDK).
That’s not to say I or other ESL people don’t make errors, we just statistically make different ones.
We often make very different kinds of mistakes. Funnily enough, I initially learned English by getting exposed to pop culture (kung-fu movies, N64 games and anime dubs) through a bilingual friend I had through 3-6th grades. Formal English teaching in schools only started in 4th grade when I was a kid. I didn’t know anything about the language by then. My now 6yo son understands way more of it than I did when I started high school, and speaks it quite a bit.
Native speakers make mistakes when things sound similar, e.g. effect/affect, then/than, etc. For non-native speakers those are very different words because they have a very distinct meaning in our heads so it’s impossible for us to confuse them.
On the other hand Non-native speakers tend to use the wrong word order, for example using a lot of “of” (House of my friend/My friend’s house) or affirmations that are meant as questions (How you did that?/How did you do that?). This happens because in our native language that’s the way phrases are structured, and internalizing the structure of a language happens long after you have enough vocabulary to communicate.
The biggest mistake I notice with non-native speakers is verb conjugation, especially with future tense. This may be because I hang around a lot of Vietnamese ESL people, idk.
For natives, the biggest mistake is misspellings and a lack of punctuation. Occasionally you’ll also see excessive punctuation and run-on sentences.
This is because most East Asian languages actually don’t conjugate their verbs at all!
In Chinese, for example, you always use the same exact verb, you just add extra sounds called “particles” to the sentence to contextualize what you’re saying.
e.g. “I’m going to the store” in Chinese is 我(wǒ - ‘I’)去(qù - ‘go’)商店(shāng diàn - ‘store’). I go store.
To say “I went to the store”, you don’t change “去/qù”. Instead you still just say “I go store”, but you add “了/le” to the end of the sentence. “Le” is a particle that means “to finish; to be completed”.
So to say “I went to the store”, you literally say “I go store (past particle)”, and the listener knows that the statment “I go store” already happened and ended - past tense.
This is why native English speakers often think of this type of grammatical mistake when they think of common English mistakes that East Asian language native speakers make.
yeah, in dome languages it’s even more complicated, you have the thing called inflection, we have this here in Polish but some languages went overboard with this like Spanish for example, currently I’m learning Japanese via duolingo and i find it relatively simple
My wife used to work with a ESL Asian person. We he got upset at work he always said “I go to mad.”
Keep in mind that some people just have brain-defects.
I’m defective for social-process ( if I could live somehow where I never had to meet another human-being, or never had to even be within 100km of any human-being, only interacting online, … for the rest of my life … lower stress … yeah : )
but not defective for some other things, maybe.
Some people are color-blind, some dyslexic, some are screwed for spelling, some for grammar.
Diversity’s more real than I’d ever understood, when I was young…
Evolution’s concerned with getting the average right, right?
The individual can be … chaotically a mixture of better-at-this & moar-worser-at-that, while still keeping the average … average.
: )
Nemo@midwest.social 6 months ago
“second language” English has problems with articles, unusual plurals, irregular verbs, and tends to an overly formal tone
“only” English has problems with homophones, apostrophe placement, and using slang where it’s not appropriate
givesomefucks@lemmy.world 6 months ago
A lot of it is just level of attention and effort…
A native speaker isn’t going to give a fuck, or even read their comment/post for sending it. Lots of their mistakes involve autocorrect
Someone who is nervous about how good their English is, will review and catch stuff and fix it.
They’re putting time and effort, and still feeling self-conscious.
Which is why we’ll see an absolutely perfect English comment followed by: Sorry for my terrible English, I hope that made sense! When it’s written at a higher grade level than our newspapers are.
Like think of speaking English as golf. Someone whose been playing their whole lives, but never actually took lessons versus someone who started last year, but has been working hard and taking lessons.
They may get the same score, but it’s hard to say they’re equal. One is actively trying to improve, and will soon and eventually surpass the “natural”.
otp@sh.itjust.works 6 months ago
I believe this means you learned English first! Haha
HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club 6 months ago
If we are going to use the golf analogy, you also have a difference in the players.
The “natural” may not need to get better. They’ve probably got a family spot in the country club and they are golfing more for a social aspect. It may help to know how to golf for business, but they are good enough.
Meanwhile, the people studying golf are more motivated since they’ve likely hit some career ceilings that require them to learn. They may not know the culture around golf that the natural knows, but they know they need to get good and will practice so they don’t embarrass themselves on the links.
folkrav@lemmy.ca 6 months ago
Same is true about second language French speakers. We conjugate articles with their nouns. E.g. “the father and the mother” would be “le père et la mère” (le/la is the same definite article in masculine/feminine form, it has no neutral form). English speakers get rightfully confused. It gets even more confusing as there’s a clear trend in the language where many feminine gendered words end with an E (porte/door, table/table, arme/weapon), but not always (nuage/cloud, véhicule/vehicle).
rottingleaf@lemmy.zip 6 months ago
Compared to English - yeah, but in general there’s nothing extreme about genders in French.
azvasKvklenko@sh.itjust.works 6 months ago
Interesting with that overly formal tone. Might be due to how school english focuses on correct grammar and vocab, but not necessarily how people actually speak casually. At least that’s how I remember English in high school.
schnurrito@discuss.tchncs.de 6 months ago
Nonnative: I definitely unable to come.
Native: I am definately unable to come.