Open Menu
AllLocalCommunitiesAbout
lotide
AllLocalCommunitiesAbout
Login

Indie Dev Says Game Refunded 55,000 Times Via Steam Loophole

⁨85⁩ ⁨likes⁩

Submitted ⁨⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨inclementimmigrant@lemmy.world⁩ to ⁨games@lemmy.world⁩

https://kotaku.com/steam-indie-short-pc-refund-paddle-paddle-paddle-zoroarts-2000712822

source

Comments

Sort:hotnewtop
  • ampersandrew@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    I hate to say it, but the business model always affects the game design. The “meta” is to make a game that’s longer than 2 hours if you want to avoid this, or that the player otherwise won’t want to part with after that 2 hours is up.

    source
    • terranoid@lemmy.cafe ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      If your game doesn’t provide more content than 2 hours that’s kinda on you IMO

      And I say that as an indie game developer. Like it someone just thought it was neat to play for an hour then they were completely done touching my game… Why would I be shocked they refunded it? They might have refunded it because they expected… Dun dun dunnnn… More content?

      source
      • ampersandrew@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

        Eh, not every game needs more “content”. Clickolding and And Roger are, as I understand it, very good at what they do, but you can finish them both in an hour. It would probably be to their detriment to make them any longer.

        source
      • HereIAm@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

        I 100% agree. I always refund every movie and music album under 2 hours as well. If they wanted to keep my money they should have added an extra hour of slop.

        source
      • VerdantTome@programming.dev ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

        It’s a fuck load of work to make a game. It is kinda ridiculous to go to all that trouble then just stop after making 2 hours of gameplay, like 2 hours total without even a good sandbox.

        Not that it’s Steam’s fault, but this is the same way of thinking that has led to big budget, story focused games getting padded with repetitive fetch quests and annoying collectibles that unlock progression.

        Yes, it’s a lot of work to make a game, but the only way to extend the play time without having to do even more work, is to water it down with low-effort filler content that reuses the expensive assets.

        source
        • -> View More Comments
    • creamfresh@lemmy.world ⁨21⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      It’s like there are less and less songs produced now that bother with an intro because streaming services demand that you should get to the chorus fast.

      source
      • funkless_eck@sh.itjust.works ⁨19⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

        there will always be exceptions and innovation. One of the things that shaped They Might Be Giants style is they used to release songs via a telephone number and if they held a note too long the phone service would think it was a dial tone and hang up.

        source
  • realitaetsverlust@piefed.zip ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    A tale as old as time. There’s people who buy clothing for a wedding or some other event, for example, and then refund it since you have a 14 day refund window in europe (or at least the DACH area) for basically anything you buy. Companies like zalando have a global 50% return rate across everything they sell.

    Sadge, but you can’t make everyone happy. Overall, I’d argue that the 2 hour return policy for steam is overall more of a benefit to consumers than it is a detriment for developers. And then again, you can always add a bit more content to the game to make it longer.

    source
  • kip@piefed.zip ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    it isn’t a loophole if it is working as intended and the original headline doesn’t say that

    also he claims 270k sold and 55k refunded but the game has been out for just under a year and steamdb shows an all-time peak of 401 players?

    https://steamdb.info/app/3570070/charts/

    source
    • ampersandrew@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      It’s not working as intended for people to refund a game that they enjoyed and finished, or else the refund window would have been 100 hours.

      source
    • Nighed@feddit.uk ⁨21⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      If it only takes two hours, the concurrent player counts are not going to be that high

      source
  • daniskarma@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨20⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    If someone doesn’t want to pay for your game they would just pirate it.

    I get that’s a disappointment for the publisher seeing a sale and then seeing that sale dissapear. But AFAIK they do not have to do anything, Steam manages the refund for them, so it’s harmless.

    source
  • iamthetot@piefed.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    Feels like a tough problem to solve, but I don’t think it’s unsolvable. Maybe the refund window could be shorter for games that report themselves as short/small/micro/whatever. Or ineligible for automatic refunds if you have a certain achievement (this one probably is not a good idea).

    source
    • psx_crab@lemmy.zip ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      You wanna get bloat? That’s how you get bloat. Dev you now artificially waste your time to get past the 2 hours mark.

      source
      • iamthetot@piefed.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

        I’m confused. Doesn’t the current system incentivize what you’re saying?

        source
    • Paradachshund@lemmy.today ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      I think the short games get shorter windows would be completely reasonable. I’m sure that would even show up as a tag in the store, too, so it would be additional info for the buyer as well.

      source
      • zod000@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨17⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

        At a high level it is reasonable, but I have been in a situation where I spent over an hour trying to get some buggy early access game to work and was forced to refund it because according to Steam I was running out of “played time” to be entitled to a refund. If I had been assured that I would have still been eligible for a refund I’d have tried some more and maybe not needed said refund. This was especially common when I used an Nvidia GPU in Linux as even being playable on the Steam Deck didn’t mean that my GPU drivers wouldn’t be an issue.

        If a short game only had a 30 minute or less refund window, I may avoid buying them at all as it is too high of a risk.

        source
        • -> View More Comments
      • iamthetot@piefed.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

        And if devs try to game it, I’m sure Valve will kick them off or something. And, yeah, customers could be informed before buying the expected play time so they know what they are getting.

        source
  • ToxicWaste@lemmy.cafe ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    it is for sure bad taste, to refund a game you enjoyed. but it can’t be solved. adjusting time windows will only shift the problem…

    however, i do not think this is a problem which needs solving. while it enables some frustration, i am pretty sure this feature makes more money than it looses: because players have this relatively generous refund model, they can take a risk in what they buy. that way players can properly test drive the games they buy and keep the ones which actually strike their fancy.

    if that policy would not exist, i think many purchases just would not be made in the first place. especially in this economy.

    source
  • FuyuhikoDate@feddit.org ⁨22⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    As somebody who did it twice I learned there are usually 3 reasons why people do it:

    • they are assholes
    • the game was really disappointing inclusive the time window to finish / price for the game
    • they want to see if they fan speed run zhr game and refund it. (For example portal 2)

    Paddle Paddle Paddle, is a fun game and does not deserve that treatment. It also has a fun replay value with different friends :D

    source
  • fpslem@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    I kinda love short games, I don’t have time to put 100 hours in every game I buy. I bought this game in part because it seemed like a bit of silly fun, and was priced appropriately.

    source
  • GreenKnight23@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    I guess he should have checked to see how quickly one could beat the game before listing it for sale.

    source
    • StarvingMartist@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      Shitty thing to do though, say it’s great, and then refund it

      source
  • RainbowBlite@piefed.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    It would be good to know the refund rate on other games before deciding if this is a problem specific to short games. Maybe that 90% positive review would have been much, much lower if people couldn’t get refunds. A $5 game with 70% reviews is not getting 250,000 sales.

    source
  • Veritrax@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    For a lot of people there needs to be a certain amount of perceived value per dollar. The article said the game is $5 full price. If I spent $5 and beat it in under 2 hours, I’d refund it too.

    source
    • StarvingMartist@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      5 bucks for two whole hours of entertainment? Seems like a steal

      source
      • caseofthematts@lemmy.world ⁨20⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

        Cheaper than a movie!

        source
    • warbond@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      If it’s good enough that I finished it I’m gonna let the creator keep the money (and pay close attention to the reviews next time, because I agree that less than 2 hours is a little short for that amount of entertainment) and make myself feel better by treating it like a donation to a good cause.

      source
    • iamthetot@piefed.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      This is like ordering a steak, eating it, then demanding a refund because it had too much gristle for your liking.

      source
      • gedfromgont@piefed.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

        No. It is not at all like that. One is food the other is entertainment.

        source
        • -> View More Comments
  • lyralycan@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    The owner’s whining about it but they clearly have a success and overall profit. Fucker needs to be humble, so many other indie devs never have a breakout game.

    source