[deleted]
We’ve been through this shit before. Multiple times, in fact, over centuries. We’ll get through it, as we’ve done before. It will likely take time. It will certainly take hell of an effort. But we will.
[deleted]
Submitted 1 year ago by ricesoup@lemmy.ml to [deleted]
Comments
rockerface@lemm.ee 1 year ago
gramie@lemmy.ca 1 year ago
I’m sorry, but I don’t see it. The century of American supremacy is coming to a close. You may not want to admit it, because everyone in the US has been thought about American exceptionalism since they started school. China will rise, as will Europe possibly. I think Russia is failing as well. Its current lashing out is the end of their term as a great power.
The US is a big country, and the fall will be slow, but I don’t think there is a way to stop it now. I suspect that future historians will trace it back to the Nixon era. Come to think of it, every Republican president since then has also been really, really shitty when it came to preserving the health of the democracy.
TheOctonaut@mander.xyz 1 year ago
Rockerface is Ukrainian, not American.
Being a seemingly temporary non-nation, Americans don’t always understand that people don’t usually just give up and accept conquest. If a people continue to distinguish themselves strongly enough without being literally wiped out or assimilated, they will survive annexation until the next opportunity for rebellion or freedom. Ireland resisted Britain for 800 years - a few years in the shadows of dictators until ordinary Russians grow balls/tits again isn’t necessarily the end of Ukraine.
conditional_soup@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Probably not, I’m afraid to say. Our government has been compromised, and the republic is dead, we will have no more legitimate elections and it’s likely (imo) that our legislature will soon dissolve. I wish I could say that we were ever the America you were taught about, but it was always a farce. I’m almost to middle age and I’ve never once seen my country try to be the place it tells itself it is. It’s always been a place that beats it’s chest while sitting on the couch, that steps on the weak and the poor to satisfy the rich and the powerful. I’ve always believed we could do better, that we could be the place we tell ourselves we are, but we never choose to do the hard work to be that place.
Though Ukraine will likely persist as an ulcer for the remainder of Putin’s life. The only good news is that we still haven’t cracked immortality, and one day probably quite soon, Putin’s number will be called.
shalafi@lemmy.world 1 year ago
You’ll like this!
Can You Say Why America is the Greatest Country in the World?
Should be required viewing for all Americans.
Justas@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
Excellent TV show.
lurklurk@lemmy.world 1 year ago
The US can’t sign a peace treaty on behalf of Ukraine. They’re not mandated to negotiate by Ukraine.
The US can stop supporting Ukraine but that doesn’t force the Ukrainians to stop fighting, or Europe to stop supporting Ukraine
djsoren19@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 year ago
Yes, absolutely. The Russian military is still a piece of shit using scared conscripts and outdated equipment. As long as the EU remains willing to fund the Ukrainian defense, they’ll keep fighting.
The real question is whether the EU will still be around. This weekend’s election in Germany is going to be of critical importance.
daggermoon@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Is Germany okay rn?
blackris@discuss.tchncs.de 1 year ago
Nah, depends on your position. Our departing government wasn’t too great, because one party (neoliberal shits called the FDP) sabotaged it from day one and the biggest party, the SPD had (and still has) a very bad leadership. So because people want change and are apparently not able to make rational choices, they will most probably give many voices to the conservative (think Democrats in the US) party, which will make an absolute piece of shit (Faschofritze Merz) their Chancellor. So from a US or russian perspective, we are totally fine, but I really fear this sunday (voting day)
NIB@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Ukraine can survive without american support. Russia has the GDP of Spain. The EU has the resources to help Ukraine, we just need
- Political will
- Ability to produce(or procure) stuff for Ukraine
For the last 100 years, everyone was dependent on each other, since we were all allied, it made less sense for every country to reinvent the wheel. Now the EU will need to create new production capabilities and that takes time and money. This will have a noticeable negative effect to the quality of life of europeans so the europeans will need to be willing to deal with that.
South Korea has a strong defence industry that can help cover the gap, especially if things are chill in SouthEast Asia.
If the EU can guarantee the safety of Greece(maybe with the creation of an EU army or through stronger defence treaties), Greece has a lot of military equipment that could potentially be sent to Ukraine, especially if Turkey is cool. Greece for example has more Leopard 2 tanks than any other country(including Germany).
I think if the EU sends troops to Ukraine, the EU will need to completely commit to that. The war in Ukraine is rough and very different than any other war, especially the wars western forces have fought in the last 50 years. So you cant half ass it and send a couple thousand soldiers to die there, you need to commit with proper air support, etc. This escalation needs to be managed carefully.
The EU needs to start pumping nukes and developing its missile program. Without the american nuclear shield, the EU needs its own. There is a reason that China is pumping nukes like crazy, because they are way behind the americans and russians. MAD is the only way to de-escalate and prevent a nuclear war.
PurpleGameBoy@lemmy.zip 1 year ago
‘This was not the America I was thought about.’
You might have been thought a little bit of propaganda.
Spawn7586@lemmy.world 1 year ago
As a european working in the weapon industry, I love reading american people thinking we make no weapons or the weapons we make are worse. We even sold some ships to the US lol. American military is the best, but not necesarily for quality, but for the sheer amount (aka quantity) coming from how much money you put in there. And a lot of money is spent buying other systems…
kent_eh@lemmy.ca 1 year ago
As a european working in the weapon industry, I love reading american people thinking we make no weapons or the weapons we make are worse.
American exceptionalism has been a major feature of the Americans self image for many generations.
It’s really tiring living beside them and having to hear them constantly blathering about it.
ricesoup@lemmy.ml 1 year ago
[deleted]Spawn7586@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I agree with you, also I literally said the same: quantity is literally US strength and EU’s weakness. EU countries are mostly selling their weapons rather than use it. Btw I’m not from france and the industry in my country is as developed as the french one if not more. Kinda happy about the fact you don’t know abouf it though: military info should not be well known or it could become a liability lol
Pistcow@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Yeah, the EU. As an American, I’m sorry for these dipshits and if it comes to it I’ll fight for Greenland…
Lysergid@lemmy.ml 1 year ago
My opinion is Ukraine and EU can kick Russia’s ass as long as they ramp up military production. Ukraine’s army tech went from 20+ years old soviet Kalashnikov stockpiles leftovers to domestically produced drones which dominate battlefield. They can and will increase production. The real question is US reckless enough to ease sanctions on Russia or worse start selling military/dual purpose goods. While Ukraine can withstand demoralized and economically crippled Russia. Ukraine will definitely lose if things get somewhat better for Russian economy and politics. What is more scary is what will happen with US-EU relationships. That would literally be US-EU proxy war.
conditional_soup@lemm.ee 1 year ago
I think we are. If you can think of something awful for us to do, we’re already on our way to doing it. We’re probably a month out from shooting garbage and nuclear waste into orbit on spaceX rockets.
MissJinx@lemmy.world 1 year ago
There is the hope of that asteroid hitting earth.
Zink@programming.dev 1 year ago
jaxxed@lemmy.ml 1 year ago
Keep in mind that it is not just arms and money, but also Trump will cut off intelligence, and Musk will start pulling Starlink.
BaroqueInMind@lemmy.one 1 year ago
Once US funds dry up, Ukraine must rely solely on European money, which is barely a drip feed compared to Bidens firehouse.
Russia can take over the entire country of Ukraine within ten years and millions of Russian conscripted men killed since they have an infinite supply of tanks, money and people willing to take the risk of death for money to send home and feed their families.
BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 1 year ago
It’s seems incredibly unlikely to me that Ukraine will cease to exist as a country, even without American support I can’t see it being annexed entirely.
It will, however, probably be forced to make some fairly brutal concessions to Russia, including territorial ones.
OprahsedCreature@lemmy.ml 1 year ago
I’ll say what I’ve been saying for a while:
“Russia has nukes. Ukraine does not. The outcome was decided before it began.”
Russia will stay in Ukraine as long as it is profitable to do so, and will leave when that is no longer the case or can get something big enough in response to convince them to leave. The US and EU can supply arms to Ukraine to make it less profitable but even so Russia has far more troops and resources than Ukraine. Unfortunately the US also hinged that support on Ukraine not negotiating for peace so they’ve been dug in extra deep in this and lost at least a generation of men now.
lorty@lemmy.ml 1 year ago
They weren’t independent before and will not be after the war. Just the master will change, maybe.
RowRowRowYourBot@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
Why are you on a Marxist Leninist instance promoting Russian fascist imperialism? That’s an odd position to take.
Anubis@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Europe is going to be the wildcard. If the US sides with Russia and says “take this deal or you get nothing from us”, it will basically be up to Europe to carry Ukraine. If they’re willing to do this, Ukraine can tell the US no and move forward with self preservation. Like you said though, Europe’s resources aren’t what the US has. So time will tell how it pans out. Just keep and eye on Europe to see what the chances will be.
Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Didn’t they JUST announce 700billion dollars in military funding yesterday?
jrs100000@lemmy.world 1 year ago
No, they have been discussing it. They wont make any announcement until after German elections.
tiefling@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 year ago
What happens when the US decides to arm Russia instead?