Submitted 1 week ago by PugJesus@lemmy.world to science_memes@mander.xyz
https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/dd78c091-2bd3-49b3-b2bd-da55cc220641.webp
Feel free to remove this, mods, if it’s too tangential to modern science, but I thought the community might find this early nature vs. nurture hypothesis amusing
To be fair, given the model he was working with, this was actually a descent experiment so long as you ignore the ethical implications.
This should be obvious, but even children will invent basic language. You only need to look as far as the deaf community for that, that always came up with pidgin languages even as they were forced to try and learn spoken language.
There’s an interesting free short documentary here: www.bslzone.co.uk/watch/history-deaf-education-1
If they’re in a group with other humans. If you grow up without language like child raised by wolves then you just miss out on language completely and it’s very hard to impossible to learn later once your special infant brain language tool is gone.
His face when they just make incomprehensible grunts and poop on the rug.
They ended up developing a rudimentary sign language based on facial expressions and gestures. Because the women who were taking care of them were strictly instructed to never speak… But they were never given any instructions regarding facial expressions or gestures. So the kids learned that was how to communicate.
Oh good, there’s a bit of a silver lining. They weren’t taught how to speak but the care-givers still interacted and communicated with them, albeit a limited amount.
I brought this up earlier in another thread, and I couldn’t find a wiki page for the actual experiment, just a page about similar experiments, where it cited this one briefly.
This was perhaps done to “prove a hole in Adam and Eve story”? They were manufactured as adults, but might then lack the childish capacity for language learning. If created with fully developed language capacity, then why not create them with full understanding of obedience to God’s will. It would take a lot of time and patience to teach God’s language at a pace suitable for undeveloped beings.
Some goat herders in the bronze age had this fun story about why snakes, the smartest animal, didn’t have legs. Also the storm God of wrath that demands the blood of the first born babies or he will strike you dead, made a golem and named him ‘red man’ and he made a woman from the golem parts, and there were trees of concepts, and a flaming sword, and uhh… yeah it kind of went off the rails. This is why I only worship Ashera. El and Adoni are such dicks.
I thought he made two golems, the other one being Method Man.
Apparently there’s enough comments to convince me this was serious. Generations would invent language, but it’s a tough ask for children to do it, and expect that it matches any existing langunge. Why cats and dogs are not called meowsers and woofers in a language I know is beyond me.
The Egyptian word for cat was “mau” so close enough
Cat in Mandarin is māo
Children have been documented to spontaneously invent language.
Thank you for link. Interesting. It did show language evolving/changing quickly. Any expectation that they would reinvent ASL or Aramaic independently would have been an absurd expectation.
Hohenzollern or Hohenstaufen?
TIL
Sanctus@lemmy.world 1 week ago
Something tells me the results were displeasing
PugJesus@lemmy.world 1 week ago
He caught one of the nursemaids speaking G*rman to the infant and the experiment had to be aborted. RIP
brianary@startrek.website 1 week ago
I didn’t even know they had GPS that long ago.
qarbone@lemmy.world 1 week ago
I think after it’s born, it’s just a murder.
And, honestly, calling it “the experiment” is pretty rough.
Depress_Mode@lemmy.world 1 week ago
According to Wikipedia:
“The experiments were recorded by the monk Salimbene di Adam in his Chronicles, who was generally extremely negative about Fredrick II (portraying his calamities as parallel to the Biblical plagues in The Twelve Calamities of Emperor Frederick II) and wrote that Frederick encouraged ‘foster-mothers and nurses to suckle and bathe and wash the children, but in no ways to prattle or speak with them; for he would have learnt whether they would speak the Hebrew language (which he took to have been the first), or Greek, or Latin, or Arabic, or perchance the tongue of their parents of whom they had been born. But he laboured in vain, for the children could not live without clappings of the hands, and gestures, and gladness of countenance, and blandishments.’”
SatansMaggotyCumFart@lemmy.world 1 week ago
I’ve been looking for a foster-mother nurse to suckle me my whole life.
Asetru@feddit.org 1 week ago
Am I the only one who interpretes this as “well, they died”?