Puberty blockers to be banned indefinitely for under-18s across UK

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Submitted ⁨⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨thehatfox@lemmy.world⁩ to ⁨unitedkingdom@feddit.uk⁩

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/dec/11/puberty-blockers-to-be-banned-indefinitely-for-under-18s-across-uk

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Cheradenine@sh.itjust.works ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

“Men have penises, women have vaginas; here ends my biology lesson.”

Jackass

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- 3ntranced@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Could you explain to me how biologically this isn’t factual? The baby doesn’t pop out with a penis and the doctor go “congratulations! It’s a girl with a penis!”
  
  Fucking delusional, you want to shift your hormones and swap sexy bits as an adult? More power to you. Wanna let undeveloped children cause irreversible damage to their body because they had a phase where they liked to cross dress? Get fucked, it’s absurd we let 18 year olds even apply to college or vote.
  
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  - stembolts@programming.dev ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    1 in 1,700 people are born with both sexual organs.
    
    If extrapolated to the population of the United States that is 10% of the population of Nebraska that cannot be defined in this manner.
    
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  - StupidBrotherInLaw@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    What’s absurd is how you’ve formed a strong negative opinion despite it being pretty obvious you’re completely clueless about the details of the topic.
    
    Kids aren’t just given puberty blockers immediately at their request. A lot of work is done prior, with the parent(s) and medical and mental health providers determining the validity of the situation and working with the child to determine the course of treatment, if any.
    
    It’s fine to disagree, but at least educate yourself first. Otherwise you’re just another bigot.
    
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  - Dasus@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Sex isn’t gender and puberty blockers don’t cause irreversible damage.
    
    You’re a shit person who’s spewing other people’s opinions and thus hate, because you’re too intellectually lazy to read about these things to grasp the even the basic concepts being discussed.
    
    So please refrain from going around calling people delusional until you spend at least a single minute reading up on what you pretend to understand.
    
    There’s a reason the term “transgender” is used over “transsexual”.
    
    en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex–gender_distinction
    
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  - coriza@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    
    Wanna let undeveloped children cause irreversible damage to their body because they had a phase where they liked to cross dress?
    
    This hilarious argument if wasn’t just a bad faith argument should be enough for everyone be in favor of puberty blockers, to avoid avoid irreversible change while the person matures and can decide what one wants to do.
    
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  - Zip2@feddit.uk ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Let’s start with the basics. It’s not all XX and XY.
    
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_chromosome_anomalies
    
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  - guillem@aussie.zone ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    The penis and vagina thing is basic biology. Like, high school basic. Sexual development is WAY more complex than that.
    
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  - jol@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Do you know what also causes irreversible damage? Puberty in trans kids
    
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  - Taleya@aussie.zone ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Do you actually have a single thought that’s not an hysterical strawman argument?
    
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  - Kaboom@reddthat.com ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    It’s because we’ve turned being trans into a religion.
    
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- cook_pass_babtridge@feddit.uk ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Who said that? I couldn’t find it in the article.
  
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  - Cheradenine@sh.itjust.works ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    No, sorry it from an interview he did. The full quote is
    
    When asked if transgender women can be women on a Talkradio interview show, he was applauded by Julia Hartley-Brewer for his response, stating: “Men have penises, women have vaginas; here ends my biology lesson.”
    
    Reported in the financial times, but also quoted in the Wikipedia bio en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wes_Streeting
    
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givesomefucks@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Only for gender dysmorphia.

Which is still stupid to ban it for that, but a lot better than a total ban.

I don’t know why people are so worried about it. I was over 6 feet tall and shaving before I was a teenager, if I had been given the option to press pause for a few years I would have jumped on it.

There is pretty much zero negative side effects to puberty blockers, it literally just delays it and early puberty is an issue and one that continues to trend in the wrong direction.

nbcnews.com/…/puberty-starting-earlier-treatment-…

Obviously it can be much worse for girls than boys, but it was still fucking weird being a child and having people twice your age assume you were a peer.

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- 13esq@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  I don’t know why people are so worried about it
  
  As far as I understand it, there are two main concerns that people have.
  
  There is very limited data regarding clinical proof that the long term use of puberty blockers is 100% reversible in cases that block puberty during the typical years that you would go through it. Traditionally, puberty blockers would be used in cases where children start puberty at extremely young ages, In these cases the puberty blockers would be withdrawn at an age typical for a child to start puberty.
  
  Leading on from point 1. Many people don’t trust children to make decisions that could impact them for the rest of their lives. Some parents are concerned they will be met with their child who is now a young adult to be asked “why the hell did you let me make that decision, don’t you know the mind is still developing at that age?”. I would not want to be held accountable for the countless stupid things I said or beliefs I held at a young age, so I can see why it is a concern.
  
  Personally, I’m broadly in support of trans rights and what people want to do when they’re adults is their own business, but I think allowing a child to make a decision that may impact them for the rest of their lives is a grey area to say the least. I’d draw the line for a child at anything that’s not 100% fully reversible.
  
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  - flamingos@feddit.uk ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    
    Traditionally, puberty blockers would be used in cases where children start puberty at extremely young ages
    
    Puberty blockers have been prescribed to transgender youth since the 90s, they’re use in combating gender dysphoria is just as much a part of the puberty blocker tradition as their use in combating early puberty.
    
    I would not want to be held accountable for the countless stupid things I said or beliefs I held at a young age, so I can see why it is a concern.
    
    This subtle notion that slips into this discourse that being trans is akin to a make-belief thing is deeply frustrating. No, children were not just being given puberty blockers because they suddenly declared that they weren’t their assigned gender. Getting puberty blockers required a diagnosis of gender dysphoria, something I can assure you is not an easy thing to get in this country, and even then still needed a specialist’s approval.
    
    This is the worst part of this ‘debate’, people are led to believe that it’s the child deciding for themselves that they get puberty blockers despite the very stringent requirements on their use for trans youths. The point of this entire ordeal is not to protect kids (puberty blocker usage have a 4% regret rate), it’s to build up the idea that no amount of safeguards can make the prescribing of trans healthcare acceptable to people you don’t believe have full bodily autonomy. Where this goes from here is not looking for other areas in which our medical system is failing children, it’s expanding the list of trans people who don’t have full bodily autonomy. The Cass Review has already said that autistic people need special consideration.
    
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  - floofloof@lemmy.ca ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    
    I think allowing a child to make a decision that may impact them for the rest of their lives is a grey area to say the least.
    
    It’s not a child making the decision. It’s typically adults making the decision for the sake of the child, and based on the child’s needs.
    
    Deciding to go ahead with puberty is also a decision that impacts a child for the rest of their life. In cases of gender dysmorphia this can cause psychological trauma that won’t just clear up, and prolong the agony by forcing the person to live into adulthood with a body that feels deeply wrong. At this point, transitioning can be more difficult because the body may already have taken on pronounced characteristics associated with the wrong gender.
    
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  - givesomefucks@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    
    There is very limited data regarding clinical proof that the long term use of puberty blockers is 100% reversible
    
    There is about 40 years of real life use, and I think a good 20 years of study before that?
    
    How much data from clinical studies and real world use do you need to feel comfortable?
    
    Many people don’t trust children to make decisions that could impact them for the rest of their lives
    
    But the permanent effects of puberty blockers are negligible…
    
    What do you think is permanent about them?
    
    I don’t think you understand what Puberty Blockers are…
    
    You seem to be wanting to ban something completely different.
    
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  - mindlesscrollyparrot@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    If puberty blockers are not reversible and if the person decides that they are not trans in later life, then the consequence would be that they are stuck in a body that doesn’t match their self-image.
    
    If that sounds bad to you, well …
    
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  - yetAnotherUser@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Vaccines can have devastating permanent side effects. Should parents no longer vaccinate their children?
    
    The answer for both is:
    
    Whichever option does less harm should be taken. A delayed puberty, despite potential long-term risks does less harm than a trans child going through the “wrong” puberty.
    
    Besides, due to the start of puberty having a pretty large range there should in theory be little harm until the age of 14 or so. And at that age children are much more capable of deciding on medical treatments than as preteens.
    
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- Dasus@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Image
  
  This you at 12?
  
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darthsid@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Will this finally settle the debate so we can focus on more pressing issues?

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- ShareMySims@sh.itjust.works ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  It has settled the debate - our government hates trans people, and is actively withholding our human rights and going out of its way to harm us.
  
  If that isn’t a pressing issue to you, you are part of the problem and a transphobe.
  
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- NickwithaC@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  No because this was clearly the wrong decision to come to.
  
  #SorryNotSorry you can’t silence the LGBT community that easily.
  
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- psud@aussie.zone ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  It will increase suicides in transgender youth
  
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- RedSeries@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Is your life a debate to be settled? Could you kill yourself and settle that debate for me?
  
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- Wanderer@lemm.ee ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  God no. People made their mind up that children should be able to permanently fuck up their body and hormones.
  
  That’s a hill they will die on.
  
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  - TotallynotJessica@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Their bodies get “fucked up” by hormones if they do nothing. We all get “fucked up” on hormones to some extent, it’s just that puberty blockers allow more opportunity to decide which way to get “fucked up.” If you truly wanted to help “brainwashed trenders” not “fuck up their bodies,” you’d support puberty blockers. It gives them the most time to decide with as few side effects as possible.
    
    You think transitioning is what happens when treatment fails? You think it’s some sort of unfortunate outcome? The data paints a clear picture: transition is the best outcome for us. No other treatment works, and as far as treatments for psychological phenomenon go, it’s one of the best.
    
    I wish I could say you’re dying on a hill, but you’re not. You’re throwing screaming children into a pit and burning them alive. You’ll face no consequence for your humble contribution outside of possible guilt, but nothing will undo the harm.
    
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RobotToaster@mander.xyz ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

except for use in clinical trials

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- floofloof@lemmy.ca ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Let’s hope that allows many kids access to the care they need. If there’s a real concern about the safety of puberty blockers, then clinical trials are exactly what’s needed to find out. I’m not entirely convinced this is really due to medical concern though. It smells like Labour trying to out-bigot the Conservatives, just to prove they’re not lefties any more.
  
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  - RobotToaster@mander.xyz ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    My understanding is by medical standards, the evidence is pretty low quality, which is why GnRH agonists aren’t approved by the EMA, MHRA, FDA, or NICE for gender dysphoria.
    
    It highlights a wider issue in medicine though, the obsession with randomised controlled trials, which is basically the only evidence the GRADE method considers “high quality”. We are seeing exactly the same problem with MDMA assisted therapy, any therapy where blinding is difficult is dismissed by the medical establishment. NICE dismissed (es)ketamine for depression for the same reason. Add to that the fact that GnRH agonists are off patent, so there’s no incentive for industry to fund studies.
    
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Monzcarro@feddit.uk ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

In a message directly to them, and referencing having come out as gay, he said: “I know it’s not easy being a trans kid in our country today, the trans community is at the wrong end of all of the statistics for mental ill health, self-harm and suicide."

I just wanted to quote this bit of the article, as I feel this is often used in bad faith arguments such as: “I don’t hate trans people, I just want to protect them from the bad outcomes that come with being trans.”

Do these people ever stop to think that it may be the way that trans people are treated, talked about, and denied essential medical care that contributes to poor mental health outcomes? Maybe if we didn’t treat people shittily, they wouldn’t feel shit.

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