Comment on How do Americans win their country back?

jeena@piefed.jeena.net ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

• Deadlytosty@feddit.nl ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Normally in Democracy the majority or popular vote wins, however due to the electoral college America has, it doesnt necessarily mean the majority voted for the winner. This was the case for Bush, and some other moments in the past.

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  • rglullis@communick.news ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    FYI: it looks like Trump is going to win the popular vote on this one as well.

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    • Dasus@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      How in the fuck.

      Like what drives a majority of Americans to vote for a demented toddler. It’s insane.

      As a kid I always wondered how on Earth did Hitler ever make anyone follow himself, how did those people not realise. Turns out a majority of people are just fucking morons.

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      • douglasg14b@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Yep and the slow gutting of the education system isn’t making it any better.

        You have an entire generation coming of voting age who are rabid Trump supporters. They don’t care about policies or democracy or public institutions. They don’t care about healthcare, social securities, or the stability of the economy.

        They don’t care about any of the things that have been built up through generations. They lack critical thinking ability.

        The recipe works. If you make dumb kids they will vote for dumb people. It works so well that part of the future plan for a trump presidency is to get rid of the department of education. Solidifying the Republican party indefinitely.

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      • yeahiknow3@lemmings.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        For all practical purposes, about 30% of people are unfeeling morons - basically psychopathic. That’s the number that consistently opposes abortion, for instance. Add to that all the dumbasses who don’t know any better (the undecideds on any extremely obvious moral issue), et voila. That’s how you get slavery, nationalism, genocide, theocracy, you name it.

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      • rockerface@lemm.ee ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        I used to think Ukrainian politicians were fucking clowns. I guess we got outclowned.

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      • TranquilTurbulence@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        The rise of the NSDAP has been studied quite a bit. Also, the psychological aspects are really interesting. Basically normal people can make all of this possible as long as the conditions are just right.

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      • natebluehooves@pawb.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Hate.

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      • silly_crotch@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Americans voted in Reagan twice. They also elected Bush twice. This is not surprising.

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      • recently_Coco@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        There are many leftists and minorities that have “voted strategically” time and time and time again only for things to get worse and worse.

        This kind of disenfranchisement leads to apathy and low turnout.

        We are told from a young age that our vote matters, and then when we are older we are told you can only vote for red fascist or blue fascist and many choose not to participate.

        There are more who did not vote than who voted for Trump. This is not what the majority wants, but with the system as it is, it is not possible for the majority to voice what they actually genuinely want and have a chance to get it.

        The votes do not have to be rigged at the ballot box for voting as a whole system to be rigged.

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      • troglodytis@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        It’s the low turn out. Too many of us are nonparticipants

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      • muntedcrocodile@lemm.ee ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        American politics isnt about choosing the best candidate its about choosing the one u hate least. The dems spent too much time playing identity politics that they forgot to play actuall politics.

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      • Wooki@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Non mandatory voting wouldnt help, being that its more susceptible to eroding a merit process from campaigns of fear or otherwise.

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    • s38b35M5@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      And I was so loving Lina Khan’s FTC, asking other things…

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    • Jackthelad@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      And Harris has done worse than Biden in every county in America.

      Not every state. Every county.

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      • WestBromwich@feddit.uk ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        [deleted]

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  • azertyfun@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Whether it’s 48 or 52 % is an immaterial difference. Every other American who voted, voted for Trump. The rest don’t seem to care either way. He has very broad popular assent and is as popular as Harris give or take a margin of error.

    Everyone is lasered-focused on the EC because it makes all the difference for the practicalities, but if one is to make a broad judgement of whether Trump won fair and square the answer is “yeah, mostly”. Further proof is the fact that the House is probably going to be his as well.

    Americans now bear the collective responsibility for the horrors of the next 4(+?) years. Do not make the mistake of blaming the popular will of outright fascism on institutional failures, because institutions didn’t force half of Americans to vote for the fascist, again.

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    • Serinus@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      I’ll wait 72 hours before settling with it, in case any shenanigans were involved. I expect it’s legitimate, but I want that window open if it’s needed.

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  • Fosheze@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Trump is winning the popular vote by a pretty decent margin. The electoral college isn’t the issue here.

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    • gerbler@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      They haven’t finished counting that’s why. Rural areas are faster to count and skew conservative.

      A republican hasn’t won the popular vote in 20 years. Trump is projected to win but like last time he’ll lose the popular vote and win by virtue of the electoral college.

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      • Fosheze@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        All the projections I’m seeing him show him almost certainly winning the popular vote. There’s a gap of 6 million votes and almost every state is over 90% reported in. That gap is going to likely shrink a bit, but unfortunately it almost certainly won’t be enough for him to even lose the popular vote.

        Lets face it, we’re (assuming you’re american) apparently just a country of facists. It looks like GOP is going to have majority in both houses too so here comes project 2025 I guess.

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      • dhork@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        It looks like turnout is way down compared to last election. Trump is pulling about the same amount he did last time ( maybe a few million down, but there are still results to get). Harris is currently down 18M from where Biden was.

        Trump’s support is no larger than it was last time. Harri,s supporters just didn’t show up

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  • Omgboom@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    But Trump won the popular vote this time

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  • DeltaTangoLima@reddrefuge.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I believe the states responsible for those silly outcomes have since passed laws to prevent it happening again.

    Could be wrong, but I listened to a podcast last week with an American professor who’s pretty much written the book, explaining the history of the Electoral College and how it really works. I’m sure he said those states since fixed those loopholes.

    Either way, the damage is done today. Another four years of stupidity in charge.

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    • zkfcfbzr@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      This is not correct. The electoral college is exactly as susceptible to giving the win to the person with fewer votes as it was in 2000 and 2016. It’s also not an issue that’s due to any state in particular and is not an issue that can be solved by individual state action. The NPVIC would fix it but requires the cooperation of many states and is not in effect, and has stalled pretty hard in recent years.

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      • DeltaTangoLima@reddrefuge.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Nah - it’s at least partly correct.

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    • Sc00ter@lemm.ee ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      You think laws matter to the privileged?

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  • PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    u̇nfoṙtcėnetlı, H ſımz t bı ƿinıŋ ð pȯpyulṙ vot æz ƿel.

    spoiler

    Unfortunately, he seems to be winning the popular vote as well.

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• halcyoncmdr@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  I think that most of the Americans want this

  Maybe, but none of the facts directly support this.

  There have been large campaigns to disenfranchise several types of voters for decades in the country. The Electoral College was designed to be unfair to appease Slave states. Voter turnout is abysmal, only about 35% of eligible citizens vote. Out of those turnout is usually around the same percentage. The highest turnout recently was 2020 only because mail in voting was expanded so dramatically, and even then it was only 67% of registered voters, so it was still only 67% of that original 37% of eligible voters. So with the highest recent turnout, we’re looking at about 25% of eligible citizens actually voting.

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  • maxwellfire@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I believe that the 67% number for the 2020 election is of eligible voters and not registered voters. While turnout is low, it’s not 25% low.

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    • billiam0202@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      It was ~67% of eligible voters that were registered to vote. Over 94% of registered voters actually voted.

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  • where_am_i@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Dafuk are you talking about? Voter turnout is 67% of all eligible voters. It’s highest since it’s ever been. And Trump won the popular vote. At least look at the facts instead of crying “stolen election”.

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• Varyk@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  No, there is a concerted effort by conservatives to use voter suppression to subvert the will of the majority in the US.

  conservatives are clawing back the country right now by hook and by crook.

  can’t go on forever, but I don’t know which is going to last longer: the country or the aging frightened conservatives willing to subvert democracy to hang on to control.

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  • where_am_i@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Trump wins the popular vote and lemmy is still in denial.

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    • Varyk@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      I don’t get it, what are you in denial about?

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  • Seleni@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Isn’t just the aging ones sadly. Lots of young people, especially young men, went for Trump. Andrew Tate has taught them well.

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    • Varyk@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      progressive policies are annually more popular and conservative policies and election results like 2016 and 2024 are won mainly by the old guard funding and utilizing their careful network of voting interference and collusion.

      Andrew Tate is a vile exception amongst younger generations, not the rule.

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• GrammarPolice@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  That’s what the Germans thought in 1933

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• C126@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  vote against this and save us all from this idiocy.

  Nope. There was just more people lined up to vote for more idiocy. We failed the world. I’d say I’m sorry, but I don’t think that’ll help. This is America.

  America needs to focus on decentralizing power. That way, when the other side wins, they can’t do much damage. Biggest problem America faces is too much centralized control.

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• illi@lemm.ee ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Democracy really is the worst form of government, just not as bad as all the others…

  Unfortunately in such polarized times like now, even though majority wants this, the ammount of people for which this is unacceptable is only slightly less than “the majority”. And besides, I believe a big part of “the majority” is just gullible enough to be persuaded they want this while it actually goes against their interests

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  • where_am_i@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    And if the other candidate won, the other half would’ve been in the same state of “this is unacceptable”. Solutions?

    Cuz lemmy seems to think if their party wins it’s all good and if the other wins it’s the end of the world. While in reality it seems there’s a 50-50 split with each side equally hating the other.

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    • illi@lemm.ee ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      It is the limitation of democracy and why it is the worst (except all the others) - because it allows this.

      How to fix this? These would be a good start: don’t polarize the society like this and create us vs. them mentality. In place of power hungry populists have people in charge who want the best for the country. Don’t enable fascists - they never should make it this far. Respect other people. Invest in education so people understand these basics.

      And this is not just about US. It’s scary that this is wherr us got because they are such a big player on the world stage

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      • where_am_i@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        The whole lemmy has been essentially about “us vs them” for the last few months. With zero discourse tolerated, only one opinion being allowed: trump bad, republicans fascist.

        So, if you worry about polarization, you guys are the biggest echo chamber I’ve seen to date.

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  • Bonskreeskreeskree@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Something can not be the worst and just not as bad as the others.

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    • Hugin@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      It’s a famous quote. The contradiction is intentional. It means democracy has a lot of problems and often looks terrible. However when you step back and consider the alternatives they are worse.

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    • illi@lemm.ee ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Take it up with Winston Churchil - I was just paraphrasing his quote.

      The point is democracy is terrible, but we don’t have anything better.

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