Comment on Finally an explanation

• echodot@feddit.uk ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

  Nazis do have human rights. Including the right to be punished for their actions. Just like everyone else.

  But if the governments don’t punish them for their actions then don’t be surprised if people take matters into their own hands. Which again, what happened to any group of people that were perceived as having too much power and being given too much leeway by the government, regardless of political beliefs.

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  • Zwiebel@feddit.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    Read some of the other comments here, happily wanting to take nazis human rights

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    • edible_funk@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      By virtue of being nazis they have forfeited the protections of the social contract. I don’t give a fuck about the dehumanization or human rights angle, when a thing exists for the sole purpose of destroying society (like nazism and any supremacism) you remove it by any means necessary from society. You do not allow it to continue because if you do, it will destroy you. Fascism is an existential threat and killing fascists is always self defense.

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    • TheparishofChigwell@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      They gave those up within their ideology

      I’ll kill a charging polar bear too even though I love animals

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  • SarahValentine@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    I find it amazing that you’re seriously advising people to fight the foot soldiers to no end instead of, you know, the handful of people in that “government” who are responsible for enabling them. The people with the wealth, influence, and technology to rig elections, make enemies and evidence disappear, controvert the law with impunity, and psychologically manipulate the masses.

    But yeah fuck it, let’s just stay mad at Bubba on Facebook with a room temp IQ.

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    • echodot@feddit.uk ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      You see the problem here is you’ve decided what I’m arguing and suggesting people do, rather than actually reading my comment. I don’t think I’ve ever stated anywhere that you can’t apply any of what I’ve said to politicians rich CEOs and anybody else who’s at it.

      But there is a very important distinction to be made between the people who are actually hurting people and the people who are using because the people who are using them won’t do anything on their own they need their foot soldiers as you call them. Diminish their footstep holders and you diminish their power too it’s all one thing.

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      • SarahValentine@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        But there is a very important distinction to be made between the people who are actually hurting people and the people who are using them, because the people who are using them won’t do anything on their own, they need their foot soldiers as you call them. Diminish their foot soldiers and you diminish their power too, it’s all one thing.

        Again, hilarious. You’ve talked yourself out of correctness and into victim blaming. Congratulations, you’re no better than them for the good of all mankind. Toodles.

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  • tabarnaski@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    A right is something you can claim for yourself. “Being punished for your actions” is not a right. I’d even argue that, from a political/social standpoint, punishment shouldn’t be the goal: at a minimum, we should seek to reeducate, and if that fails, isolation is the way to go.

    That being said, at the individual level, I wholeheartedly condone the punching of nazis.

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  • mech@feddit.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    I’m not surprised. But I don’t condone or celebrate it either.

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    • echodot@feddit.uk ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      The right have it so easy. They are all united together as one group of racist assholes.

      The left after deal with a bunch of fence sitters that never want to do anything, who generally just hope that the situation magically results itself on its own. Any suggestion by anyone that maybe it would be a good idea to perhaps do something, is always meant with pushback.

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    • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      The death of a Nazi is always a cause for celebration

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      • SarahValentine@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        Yes, but a Nazi may “die” through ceasing to hold to Nazi ideals, and striving to better themselves. Many strong fighters for good causes began that fight on the wrong side. I can’t imagine how much worse the world would be if, historically, such people had been killed out of hand as you suggest would be right.

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• desra@lemmy.vg ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

  I’ll agree this should be an unpopular opinion. When they deny the rights of others, they forfeit their own.

  Society is generally based on social contracts regarding human decency, respect and what apparently are more extreme ideas like compassion and empathy. It’s an agreement to be a part of a community, not to exploit it for selfish gain. If they want to do that, at the very least they should be exiled and allowed only care about themselves by themselves.

  We need to stop tolerating intolerance. If you’re harmful to our species letalone our planet that we share with so many others, part present and future, ostracize or eradicate. This high road shit has gotten use nowhere in the entirety of our planets history but right here where monsters are allowed and encouraged to reign.

  I’ll also agree to step up to the chopping block if it means I take some of these assholes to hell hand in hand with me.

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  • mech@feddit.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    Granting someone human rights IS NOT tolerance.
    And it’s not high road shit.

    When Nazis attack your state with an army, shoot them in defense.
    When they attack your society, arrest them, give them a trial, lock them up and seize all assets they used.

    The problem we have isn’t that those measures aren’t enough.
    It’s that we don’t even do those things, because our politicians are actually in league with them or afraid of them.

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    • Shanmugha@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      Granting someone human rights IS NOT tolerance

      It IS bullshit. No one ever is born with the notion of human rights and all the crap, but some creatures are born human nonetheless. Which is why

      And it’s not high road shit

      It actually is. I can agree not to kill someone unless they have killed or caused comparable harm, but not after. Once someone has breached social contract of decent treatment of others - they are not protected by it in my eyes anymore. Yes, it makes me capable of terrible things. No, I am not giving up that capability just for an idea that “I am good and civilized, unlike others”

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      • Zwiebel@feddit.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        No one ever is born with the notion of human rights and all the crap

        Maybe not in your country, but here in Germany people are in fact born with human rights, including notably the right to live.

        Which, funnily, both the human rights declaration and the German constitution where written right after the nazi reign, by people who knew better than you and me what fashism can do.

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      • mech@feddit.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        It also makes you susceptible to do inhumane things to people based on false information.

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      • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        No one ever is born with the notion of human rights and all the crap, but some creatures are born human nonetheless.

        Nobody is born racist, homophobic, transphobic, xenophobic, and fascist either.

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    • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      When they attack your society, arrest them, give them a trial, lock them up and seize all assets they used.
      Inestigate their support network and shut that down. Ban Nazi parties, clubs and groups.

      This. Does. Not. Work.

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    • DarthFrodo@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      Does that mean that from your perspective, the US shouldn’t have attacked and defeated the Nazis in WW2 and should have allowed them to stay in power and do their thing instead?

      This kinda seems like preferring to sacrifice the human rights of the innocent, to protect the human rights of their murderers.

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      • captainlezbian@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        Welcome to the uncomfortable morality of international relations, where you may be able to stop some evil people, but the costs may involve extreme human suffering and you may not be able to stop them.

        Attacking nazi Germany is one end of the spectrum, in retrospect it was an easy choice. The Iraq war is on the other end, it went quite poorly and the internal motivations were tainted. The US war in Afghanistan is up there with it. And there’s a lot of gray areas, like theoretically attacking Myanmar today or the bombing campaign that contributed to the fall of Ghaddafi.

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    • WorldsDumbestMan@lemmy.today ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      You talked us into enough shit.

      Silence.

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      • mech@feddit.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        username checks out

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• HasturInYellow@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

  “Universal” human rights can be forfeited by the individual by attempting to restrict another’s rights.

  Done and done.

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• mathemachristian@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

  Lets debate the SS in the marketplace of ideas…

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• s@piefed.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

  Trolley problem — save the human rights of billions by sacrificing the human rights of the few who want to tie all of these people to the trolley tracks

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  • Zwiebel@feddit.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    Except it’s not because killing them isn’t the only option

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    • edible_funk@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      Listen, you don’t convert a nazi. Some can come out of it on their own when the right support is present, but here’s the thing: I’m not obligated to help someone who’s ideology expressly wishes for my death. Until they’re not a nazi by both their own and others metrics they’re an existential threat that should be eliminated with extreme prejudice by any means possible. If that’s reeducation, fine, but that largely doesn’t work. When something is actively trying to kill you right now, today, then you fucking kill it back. Especially when it’s trying to kill you because your skin is darker or you’re queer or your junk doesn’t match your gender. I’ll stop wanting them dead when they stop wanting me dead.

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    • s@piefed.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      What is your method to eliminating the active concentration camps posthaste?

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    • Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      It is tho

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• TheparishofChigwell@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

  It is sad for us to have to go through such trauma but violently murdering fascists is not dehumanizing. We are honouring them by believing the true extent of their evil, respecting their decision by reacting truthful to reality. It’s inhumane to let such sick individuals believe they might be right, when they believe in power being absolute. Natural order is what they want, why deny them?

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• Saapas@piefed.zip ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

  Doesn’t seem like a very unpopular opinion tbh

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  • FishFace@piefed.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    If you push back on “punch a nazi” you’ll find how unpopular it is quite quickly

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    • Zwiebel@feddit.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      We are pushing back on “kill everyone accused of being a nazi”.

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      • FishFace@piefed.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        So you see how the OP’s caption didn’t mention anything about mere accusations, and implicitly assumed that the speaker could discern good from evil? And we then had to point out that in practice it’s accusations, not objective fact?

        And do you see how the person at the top of this comment chain started at the basis of fundamental human rights, which not include the right to life, but also the right not to be assaulted?

        So, the difference you are seeing is not a meaningful one.

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      • gurty@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        And in doing so, I have been accused of being a nazi in this thread, ergo I should apparently be shot and killed. I came here to escape reddit but I think I made a mistake.

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      • edible_funk@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        Who the fuck is doing that? Who’s advocating for that? This just some bullshit in your imagination because it sure seems that way.

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    • edible_funk@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      Punching nazis is morally correct.

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      • FishFace@piefed.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        Oh look, another one.

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  • mech@feddit.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    Without context, it isn’t.
    As soon as I post it in a thread about Nazis doing Nazi shit, I get downvoted to hell.
    Same with my anti-war stance.

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    • echodot@feddit.uk ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      Context is critical though. Often times I see people say things like “we shouldn’t stoop to their levels” which, like yeah, we shouldn’t have to.

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      • EggInDisguise@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        The moral high road is filled with corpses.

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    • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      As soon as I post it in a thread about Nazis doing Nazi shit, I get downvoted to hell.

      Gee, I wonder why

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• ButteredBread@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

  Not that I don’t agree but if I was a nazi i would prefer to die anyways. Even if I didn’t get killed my cellmates would probs kill me unless im isolated which is… even worse. Besides if I ever realized how messed up that was i would probs kill myself but idk how likely that is.

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• mnemonicmonkeys@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

  Nazis aren’t people

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  • Ashelyn@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    The most terrifying thing to me about Nazism and fascism is that, by all psychological and otherwise measurable accounts, people who exhibit its traits are on the whole not that different from any other person you might find without them. Perhaps you could say they found a mental switch—a way of justifying their actions and behaviors—that forfeits one’s humanity in the process, but I believe this line of thinking is flawed.

    No, I think Nazis are fully human, which condemns their depravity all the more. They don’t get to escape from the moral weight of what they’ve done by being stripped of the burdens and responsibilities of humanity. We cannot underestimate Nazis, or treat them as though they are mere animals or dumb cogs; they are an example of every single thing a person cannot be and also be allowed to live normal, quiet lives in a just world.

    Nazism is a sort of evil that, from what we know, only humans are capable of.

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