I think work that requires you to study and learn and experience for ages should be paid higher than work you can do without prior experience or know-how.
But you know, reasonably higher. Like 3x at most.
Comment on Damn straight!
libre_warrior@lemmy.ml 3 weeks ago
No work is less valuable than others.
all work is equal
craftrabbit@lemmy.zip 3 weeks ago
mcv@lemmy.zip 3 weeks ago
I don’t care much about pay differences, as long as everybody can afford to live comfortably and nobody can afford to buy politicians.
craftrabbit@lemmy.zip 3 weeks ago
Fair enough
lightnsfw@reddthat.com 2 weeks ago
This is my stance. If you’re working full time you should get a living wage. If you’ve got more experience or have learned more specialized skills then you should get more on top of that baseline living wage. I think 3x is less than what I would set the cap as but when I say that I’m thinking of people with highly specific technical skills or medical professionals, not CEOs. 3x is a fine cap for them.
ddplf@szmer.info 3 weeks ago
Even Marx knew that’s just not true at all. And I’m not even talking about the usual ‘garbage collector vs doctor’ bullshit.
I’m talking fastfood worker vs cafeteria worker, where one is reheating some chemical wastes to poison people for corporate gains; whereas the other is serving cheap and nutritious food for his local community.
BarneyPiccolo@lemmings.world 3 weeks ago
I think both of those examples are wild generalizations.
ddplf@szmer.info 3 weeks ago
Not as much as the original claim, so I’m fine with that
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
i mean i really believe that in general, but some people really do provide unique services. it’s hard to reconcile the two concepts especially because people are allowed their contradictions so whatever
alternategait@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I think if you decouple capital and earning from skill this “more or less valuable” thing sorts itself out. If I’m hungry, I’d rather have a farmer and a chef around. If I sprain my ankle, I’d rather have a doctor and a PT around. My needs of the moment are not what I always need. My abilities at this moment, are not what my abilities always will be. for example, if I sprain my ankle, I probably can’t help the farmer bring in the cattle, but I could help the doctor by setting up the autoclave for surgical tools.
I also feel like if my ability have a home and live in a community and not starve were separated from how my time is spent, I would get to choose both less specialized things and I would probably get to cycle through different things (and prevent burnout). I would adore a schedule that lets me do significant physical labor for 2-4 hours in the morning, child care 2 days a week, geriatric health care 2 days a week, barista another day or two, and creative endeavors the rest of the time. That’s not really a job that can or does exist these days and if I tried to cobble it together from part time work, lean staffing would never let it be regular enough to manage all of them without flaking out on someone.
BlackLaZoR@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
all work is equal
It isn’t.
Mulligrubs@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
It is. It’s TIME.
judgy_jackdaw@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Person A and person B have to do the same exact task e.g. fix a car or whatever. It takes person A one hour to do the job. Person B is more skilled and experienced, and thus can do the exact same job in 30 minutes. Correct me if I’m wrong, but by your logic I understand that person A should be paid double of what person B is paid, because they gave double of their equally important time. One could argue that since it’s the same job being done, they should be paid the same. I would argue person B deserves even more pay for the exact same job that person A did, because they SAVED time. I agree time is valuable, thus doing a job faster is more valuable than doing the exact same job but slower.
PhoenixDog@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
What work isn’t equal to others?
hardcoreufo@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
C suite work for example is completely useless.
BlackLaZoR@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
The unnecessary one.
poopsmith@lemmy.ml 2 weeks ago
You are not required to judge the value of work based on its output. While some types of work may produce output that is relatively more beneficial to society than is other work, a society can choose to believe that the value of the work lies in the effort rather than the output. From each according to their ability, to each according to their need. This is the core tenet of Marxism. It’s entirely a matter of which paradigm you choose to accept. There is no right answer to this question, only reflections of what you value.
BlackLaZoR@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
society can choose to believe that the value of the work lies in the effort rather than the output
Beliefs won’t feed you. Raw output won’t feed you either. What feeds you is an output of things society actually needs. There’s no reasonable way of gathering information of what every single member of society needs, worse some members will lie to get more resources than they should. That approach has fundamentally unsolvable problems
poopsmith@lemmy.ml 2 weeks ago
The problems you list are solvable, but you have apparently lacked the intellectual curiosity to investigate how they can be solved. I won’t debate the basic tenets of Marxism with you because it will take too much time and effort, and I have no way to know if you’re genuinely interested or just another troll. But you can find numerous reading lists here if you want to understand.
ironycanal@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
Hell yeah! Guard labor is real labor! FOP unions are real unions! Solidarity with the guys who tear gas you!
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
What about ICE?
libre_warrior@lemmy.ml 2 weeks ago
It was a comment of what society should be rather than what it is. Ofcourse there are toxic jobs in todays capitalist system. Work that cause over production, that helps oil companies, washes brands, makes us more dependent on cars or cause mass dehumanization.
In an ideal society we dont have ICE officers. We dont have toxic work. We just have work depending on whats meeded.
auzy1@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
I show the same respect to any workers, but, some work is much less specialized.
I wouldn’t say a vibe coder is as valuable as a software developer as an example
SuperNovaStar@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
Entertainers are valuable and skilled workers. They don’t want to have to advertise to make ends meet, that’s just how our economy is right now.
kamen@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I consider influencers as part of the advertisement industry.
black0ut@pawb.social 3 weeks ago
Well, vibe coding isn’t working. That’s just letting the machine think for you.
However, even non specialized work is essential. Burger flippers, street cleaners, bus drivers, librarians… They may not have a career as long and specialized as a doctor’s, but they’re still essential people, and their work should be valued.
captainlezbian@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Librarian is a job requiring a masters degree. Library clerks don’t need formal training however. Bus drivers also require a CDL which I would argue also makes it skilled labor. I wouldn’t be surprised if street cleaners also need one.
But yes, many jobs are essential for our society that don’t require certifications, education, or formal training. Though I will say that some jobs are more necessary than others. There are both bullshit jobs and jobs where while the labor is real, the benefits of it to society are less than the value produced by it.
auzy1@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
What about people who manufacture cigarettes?
Or gambling companies?
I can think of many jobs society can safely get rid of
The guy flipping burgers is essential and people need to eat.
“News reporters” at sky news… not essential