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LifeInMultipleChoice@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

I get why people say cryptocurrencys are a scam, but the whole proof of stake shit makes lot more sense if someone were trying to protect all of society from say mass inflation in places like Venezuela or something.

The revolutionary w.e he was talking about had to be proof of stake, making it use 99.9% less power than things like Bitcoin.

The alternative choice was always the same, control by the U.S. or China. Really not many other options.

If people cared about the environment they wouldn’t use Bitcoin, if they cared about people, they wouldnt use the U.S. dollar and such. Every country in the world supports the U.S in doing so…

We need better alternatives, etherium may not be it… but surely there has to be a better way to keep people from suddenly plunging into poverty when they don’t have control of their government.

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SolidShake@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Crypto is a scam because after Bitcoin got popular so many people just started “making” it. As of today there are over 16,500 active crypto currencies. That’s fucking dumb idc who you are. The very original idea was to just have a global currency that didn’t have an exchange rate. That makes more sense then whatever the hell it’s turned into now. Crypto is like Pokemon cards.

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- null@piefed.nullspace.lol ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  
  The very original idea was to just have a global currency that didn’t have an exchange rate.
  
  Lol that’s not even close to true.
  
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  - T00l_shed@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    It was for drugs right?
    
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    redsand@infosec.pub ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Money laundering too. Google “liberty reserve” or check out Epstein files.
    
    Ultimately one of the Proof of Stake, momentum or ring sig coins would probably be better choices than Chinese Yuan as the next global currency to trade energy in even with this as true otherwise we go back to metal.
    
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Eggymatrix@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
The main point cryptobros are missing is that the economy is controlled by force, something you can experiece if you are sailing in the persian gulf these days.

Even at the scale of a family, my taxes are collected once a year and if I don’t pay the nation comes collecting their due by force, via the law enforcement.

All these cryptomoneys have the notable bug of not being controllable by the nations controllong their economy, so come a sufficient magnitude of value transfer they will be rendered illegal very fast. You ain’t getting paid with it, you ain’t buying food or or mortgages with it.

You can buy drugs and killers with it though, which is nice if you are into that kind of thing.

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- boboliosisjones@feddit.nu ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  You can very easily tie your crypto to a debit card that works in any place that would take a VISA card and also with ATMs, so it is usable just like any other currency in that regard. Do not I am saying usable and not used, though.
  
  And under the hood it is of course converted to a regular ol’ currency and then paid using that.
  
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- baines@lemmy.cafe ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  all fiat is a scam, printer go brrrrrrrrrrrr
  
  crypto just used to be more volatile with no sure offload but if we have a run on the banks again or we lose the FDIC not like the USD is better now
  
  we live in the griftiest timeline
  
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- toofpic@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Multiple crypto exchanges allow you to issue a card and pay for usual stuff. I don’t use one now because I don’t have savings in crypto, but I did buy groceries with BTC. They were actually traded to euros first at the moment of payment, but it didn’t require any additional steps from me.
  
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DmMacniel@feddit.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Energy is still traded with petrol dollars, doesn’t matter what crypto you try to sell. By decentralising energy production (which most oligarchs dont like) you can get away from it, there is no other way.

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- LifeInMultipleChoice@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Didn’t the UAE say like yesterday they were going to start trading petrol in Yuan if they run out of dollars. People will accept whatever they feel is safe and available. Crypto isn’t safe, so it won’t be used
  
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Hapankaali@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

We need better alternatives

Why? Modern fiat currencies do exactly what a currency needs to do.

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- LifeInMultipleChoice@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  It doesn’t matter if it is fiat or not necessarily. But if I told you your money was going to be worth half tomorrow, then half again the next every day for the next 16 weeks… You would think shit… Maybe there is a better way to do this. That has happened to millions of people across several countries. They didn’t wake up one day and choose it, but poof gone. Your entire life turned to nothing because we are using currency that isn’t based on anything but a government that can collapse. Universal currencys not run by local governments could help prevent such.
  
  The thing is, large countries that don’t have these problems currently, are the ones with power to change that… and would never vote to change it, because it could help poorer countries create stability and grow over time, which makes them not so much less than the big countries who want to be able to take advantage of those countries when they wish for their advantage.
  
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  - booly@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    
    But if I told you your money was going to be worth half tomorrow, then half again the next every day for the next 16 weeks… You would think shit… Maybe there is a better way to do this.
    
    Doesn’t that happen to most cryptocurrencies?
    
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    LifeInMultipleChoice@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Etherium is in question in the post, so never even close. I’m sure people have lost money, but if you bought at the absolute height and sold at the absolute low after it, you maybe could have lost half once. That’s max loss unless you bought every up and sold on every down. In 5 years you’d be down 16%. 1 year you’d be up 31%. It’s volatile but not as much as people make it out to be.
    
    The government and media have always had reason to put people against it and say it’s only used for drugs. Kind of like those fish men we bombed in boats without trial.
    
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  - Hapankaali@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    First of all, hyperinflation hasn’t been an issue in any modern economy for decades. We understand more about monetary policy than we did in the 1930s.
    
    Secondly, economic crises did happen prior to Bretton Woods. In fact, they tended to be more common, and more severe.
    
    Finally, it is not obvious at all that “universal currencys (sic) not run by local governments” could do better, especially given our experience with cryptocurrencies, all of which are extremely volatile and not suitable as a currency for that and various other reasons.
    
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    A_norny_mousse@piefed.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    
    decades
    
    Not true:
    
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation_in_Zimbabwe
    
    The worst brunt was 20 years ago, but it returned a few times between 2019 and 2024.
    
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  - Tar_alcaran@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    
    Universal currencys not run by local governments could help prevent such
    
    xkcd.com/927/
    
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  - A_norny_mousse@piefed.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    
    The thing is, large countries that don’t have these problems currently, are the ones with power to change that.. and would never vote to change it, because it could help poorer countries create stability and grow over time, which makes them not so much less than the big countries who want to be able to take advantage of those countries when they wish for their advantage.
    
    Well said. Ultimately imperialism. If we don’t change this way of “countries thinking” humanity is truly fucked.
    
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- some_kind_of_guy@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  It’s pretty good except for the money printing and federal control aspect. A global currency which belongs to the people seems desperately needed.
  
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  - Holytimes@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Well crypto fundamentally can never be that.
    
    You would have to solve that silly little problem of there’s no such thing as perfectly free infinite energy generation entirely unregulated and uncontrolled by a government.
    
    So long as energy is controlled and funded by a government, all crypto will ever be is a clever hand wave of a problem by removing itself one step and claiming that problem doesn’t exist.
    
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  - Hapankaali@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Yes, for various reasons it would be beneficial to have a global government responsible for global issues. However, until such time as we have one, local currencies are going to be the best bet.
    
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- BygoneNeutrino@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  It’s controlled by a government. A government that has trillions of dollars worth of real assets isn’t nearly as safe or secure as digital currency back by the block chain. It has been scientifically proven that human imagination is infinite. Bitcoin going to the moon isn’t an assumption, it’s a fact.
  
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lime@feddit.nu ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
i mean the big crux with proof of stake is that the majority of the currency was already held by a group with aligned interests. so it’s really no different than normal currencies, it’s just a bit earlier in the timeline.

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EfreetSK@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
To me the PoS always sounds like the richer you are, the more power you have. It sounds like the current system we have

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- SirHaxalot@nord.pub ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Is it really that different with proof of work? In the end the control is going to end up with relatively few entities that have the resources to build large scale mining farms..
  
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- LesserAbe@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  It’s better than proof of work, even though both of them reward people who already have resources.
  
  I’ve been interested in the G1 currency system. (Pronounced June) Participants are all issued the Universal Dividend each day. Sort of bootstrapping universal basic income. Current issue is it’s pretty much limited to France because you need five users you’ve met in real life to certify you.
  
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  - Lemming6969@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Interesting project. Very very hard to get into. I wish they had more examples of distributions if you have a lot accumulated VS new members VS old members VS someone who had a lot but spent it all. They say it all converges but it’s not well documented.
    
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    LesserAbe@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    I’ve read into it a little bit - basically every day every participant gets the Universal Dividend. It’s the same for everyone. Supposing you had every person on earth participating, they all get the same thing every day.
    
    The next part I feel like we should skip explaining to the casual observer, because it’s not so simple:
    
    Everyone gets 1 Universal Dividend per day. The Universal Dividend consists of x number of G1/June coins. That x amount is defined mathematically based on the number of participants. So fewer coins are issued today with let’s say 10k users, and more coins are issued in the future with 100k users.
    
    The system is inherently inflationary. If all users, people who have been doing it for 20 years and those doing it 2 days, didn’t make any further transactions, after 40 years their wallet balances would effectively be the same.
    
    Of course if the system is a success, people will be making transactions. But the idea is to encourage commercial exchange, rather than people hoarding because they think it will be worth more in the future.
    
    The value isn’t in the coin, the value is being able to transact with other people without resorting to barter. If you have to work for someone else or borrow in order to perform transactions, then you will be beholden to those who have already accumulated a lot of wealth.
    
    This system doesn’t solve the fact that somebody owns a factory, and somebody owns an apartment building, and someone owns the farm land and so on. But it would help the issue where the federal reserve can generate billions of dollars at a keystroke which are made available to big banks to lend to the public with interest, and which simultaneously devalues the dollars in your wallet.
    
    This system is inflationary, like federal money creation is inflationary, but at least those inflated coins are being put in normal people’s wallets instead of a handful of big banks. It helps defend against the accumulation of billionaires.
    
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CompactFlax@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
I fail to see the difference between “I have some special numbers” and “I have this special metal” and either way the value swings in comparison to other things. The special numbers are certainly more portable but as a revolutionary “not a fiat currency” it’s a bit of a stretch, no?

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- SeptugenarianSenate@leminal.space ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  to me it feels like the subtle difference between a representative democracy and a direct democracy. Representative tends to be more common as those in power are more willing to transition to systems in which they could reasonably hope to keep most of their power, whereas I see the crypto selling point being that the end-users would have some voting rights towards the setting of inflationary rates (different mechanisms for adjustment than fiat, I am sure [seriously not an expert on crypto or on what I think involves an understanding of “modern monetary theory”]), versus non-government financial platforms such as bank owners [federal reserve] printing the money in order to effect inflation rates.
  
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  - wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Any sort of proof of stake or weighting of power is game-able and abuse-able. Even 1 person gets 1 vote just results in a black market of people exchanging theirs for some other thing of value. It always comes down to a division between those who “have” and those who don’t. Even simply having more power through length of time invested creates power dynamics.
    
    That doesn’t mean that things can’t get better or we shouldn’t try, but it does mean that it’s something that can’t just be waved away with magic phrases.
    
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- LifeInMultipleChoice@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Oh yeah it’s a huge stretch. I just mean that the revolution tied to etherium was chopping out the massive environmental impacts compared to Bitcoin.
  
  Otherwise I look at it as the U.S. government owns the dollar, and it’s value is directly tied to what they say it is. If the U.S. government decided to double the amount of dollars in the world tomorrow and use the money in the way they want, everyone who owns said money just saw it’s value half, and only if they were on the in and in of who the federal government cared about would you possibly benefit or even make even.
  
  “I bought a bond for $100,000 with guaranteed 4.34% interest over 10 years”
  
  Then the government prints as much as it wants or makes decisions that could devalue the currency to its own benefit. Currency value drops by 10%, they pay you out 4.34% interest… And you lost money. Why, because the U.S. dollar lost money and much of the world hedges their bets on the U.S. staying normal… Which the U.S. Doesn’t look very normal right now.
  
  Hell if I became president I had support in Congress I would “print” 20 trillion dollars virtual of course put it in an account and build housing for everyone in the U.S. that doesn’t have it using 250k homes rotating them out every 30 years off the interest and money from that false account. It would put a shit ton of people to work, it would renovate all old homes deemed good enough to sustain people for the next 30 years and end homelessness while creating jobs or housing in areas which allows companies to expand to areas we otherwise weren’t using. Solar powe, fiber, whatever can be set up all around…
  
  Everyone else’s money drops in value, but all housing and rent costs just disappeared. Jobs are abundant and stress would drop for a lot of America. The debts we owe are in U.S. dollars, everyone now owes less, a crazy stupid slate to shake things up.
  
  Every other country/person that owned U.S. dollars, well they are just out of luck… they just lost a lot of value.
  
  Point is, who knows what kind of crazy shit people could do in government. If it collapsed in 1 country, not everyone who lives there should suffer because their only money is held together by that government. A universal currency is safer in that mindset.
  
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  - MsPenguinette@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    I would prefer our monetary systems come with the flexibility that is present when managed by governments. Unless someone can create crypto that has consumer protections
    
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    LifeInMultipleChoice@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Id rather it be global and not local government controlled. The consumer protection is immediate. The only way the consumer value drops of the value drops for the entire world, in which a chicken cost the same as a chicken did yesterday, because the trade for a chicken is the same to the universal value of a chicken at that location yesterday
    
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MsPenguinette@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Crypto does work because digital scarcity is not good enough to create meaningful value so the fall back value is the energy input into the token. And the idea something is valuable just because of the electricity used is not very compelling and will never be adopted. Bitcoins price right now is highly based on miners keeping a floor based on not wanting a loss on their current energy input. Crypto basically abstracts the concept of money so far that losing actual reasons why it works. Touch grass

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- prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Ethereum is proof of stake, and uses something like 99.9% less electricity than Bitcoin because of it.
  
  Minting new coins is not tied to power use for proof of stake coins.
  
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- LifeInMultipleChoice@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  The energy used has near nothing to do with value of the coin in the post. Bitcoin and Etherium are completely different in this manner.
  
  That said, Etherium shouldn’t be taken up globally as a universal currency as it came from dirty roots like most currencys do. We need a pure untainted currency created that goes global
  
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  - LesserAbe@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    I just commented somewhere else in this thread, have you heard of G1/June? Crypto that’s kind of like a UBI: https://g1currency.org/?PagePrincipale
    
    Still has some major issues from what I’ve seen, but I’m very interested in the concept.
    
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HazardousBanjo@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Crypto in isolation isn’t a scam (ignoring shitcoins and memecoins).

The issue is crypto is the perfect technology to both hold/launder/gamble billions to trillions in undocumented and untaxed wealth by the Epstein class.

Its also perfect technology to scam millions of desperate dipshit working class numpties with severe gamblong addictions and far-right beliefs.

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takeda@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Ironically cryptocurrency enabled the level of corruption we have right now that put us on a path to depression 2.0.

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