Why does the government of the USA stand by the country of Israel?

Comments

• Redfox8@mander.xyz ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  It amazes me that no-one ever seems to say (not that I have seen, at least)…Isreal is a western, democratic state with nuclear weapons in the middle east.

  It’s basically a major power base for the west in the predominantly arab part of the world.

  Anything else is a side arguement as far as I’m concerned.

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  • IndustryStandard@lemmy.world ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Israel is an Apartheid state not a Democracy. Please don’t spread lies.

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    • fine_sandy_bottom@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Well yeah but why would the US quibble over the strength of their democracy? It’s a western, pseudo-democratic state with nuclear weapons in the middle east.

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    • muntedcrocodile@lemm.ee ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      What apartheid are they committing? Is Palestine not its own democracy?

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  • treadful@lemmy.zip ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    This is the only explanation that spans parties and ideologies. Loosing this foothold would be detrimental to regional military and diplomatic influence.

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    • Maggoty@lemmy.world ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      The US has something like 18 bases in the middle east. Israel is not a strategic asset in any way shape or form.

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    • andyburke@fedia.io ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      We need to trust such a country to be judicious in their use of force, to not engage in any unnecessary conflict that puts both they and their allies at risk, and we want that country to be stable and share our values.

      Israel is not demonstrating these qualities, at least not now.

      Given that, why should we continue our support?

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  • marcos@lemmy.world ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Isn’t the current government on extended time? That’s not a very democratic thing.

    Anyway, when Iran was quickly moving to become a democracy, the US wasn’t supporting them.

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  • Maggoty@lemmy.world ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    They have nukes but other than that we have better allies and better democracies in the region.

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    • fine_sandy_bottom@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      such as ?

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• mozz@mbin.grits.dev ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  1. Historically, almost any US politician who didn't give full enthusiastic support for whatever war crimes Israel wanted to commit would lose their job because of AIPAC. That doesn't seem to be true anymore but old habits die hard.
  2. The Mideast has a bunch of oil and we like to go on little military/covert operation adventures there that coincidentally end up with leaders in place who want to sell it to us for cheap. That means it's pretty useful to have a no-questions-asked stable ally on the ground there; we have some others, but they're not as reliable or permanent or beholden to us as Israel is.

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  • fine_sandy_bottom@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    it’s pretty useful to have a no-questions-asked stable ally on the ground there

    It’s this. This is the answer. All the way up and down.

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• originalucifer@moist.catsweat.com ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  because they created as a reason to have a strong military base in the mideast.

  the us doesnt really give a shit about jews. its about military power.

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  • DigitalDruid@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    [deleted]

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    • Maggoty@lemmy.world ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      It’s a radar outpost. We have real bases capable of projecting troops and airpower all over the middle east. We could move the radar into Jordan and be fine.

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• InternetCitizen2@lemmy.world ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  They were our only ally in the Levant during the cold war. The other Arab states were USSR aligned. Not that they were a great ally, but political motivations at the time said we needed one.

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  • ours@lemmy.world ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    With allies like these, who needs enemies?

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  • Maggoty@lemmy.world ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    They aren’t an ally now though. They screw with our politics and ignore anything they don’t want.

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    • InternetCitizen2@lemmy.world ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      I didn’t say they were a good one.

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• Maggoty@lemmy.world ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Tl;Dr - Massive unopposed lobbying campaigns for the last couple decades and the Cold War.

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  Honestly? Domestic politics. Israel has had an influential lobbying arm in the US since World War 2. Combine that with post war guilt about turning Jewish refugees away during the Holocaust and the cold war position of Arabs and you have a slam dunk case for the US backing Israel until the mid 90’s. Which is what you see in history.

  However Bill Clinton correctly identified the political time bomb inherent to Israel after peace talks fell through and began pressuring them to end new settlements. The lobbying groups helped get George Bush elected because of that. (To be clear these are Americans, some Jewish, some not, that believe in Israel for varying reasons. Not Isreali agents or anything like that.) George Bush also did not want that political hot potato and kept Clinton’s pressure going. Especially as he tried to rally support for a second war.

  At this point around 2003 alarm bells started going off in the pro Isreali lobbying groups and in the Israeli government. They sensed that now that the cold war was over they would not receive special treatment anymore. So they began laying the ground work for major lobbying efforts at the city, county, state, and federal levels. They also began a pressure campaign on media to have issues presented on a light partial to Israelis. In 2004 conservative Israelis and their allies had a taste of their worst nightmare. The Israeli prime minister ordered settlements in Gaza to be abandoned. This was because of international pressure.

  Netanyahu and the pro Israel lobbying groups proceeded to work at making America a shield for Israel over the next 15 years. Resulting in many states and localities passing laws to prohibit the BDS movement and define any criticism of Israel as Anti-Semitism. This is known as the IHR definition which the US House just adopted.

  While there is a significant portion of the US population that supports Israel as a result of decades of cold war propaganda, they aren’t why the government is so vehement about it. Israel and its friends have lobbied our government directly for nearly 20 years without much resistance. Pro Palestinian groups, and positions have been seen as largely terrorism aligned in a country that’s been at war with groups labeled as terrorists for 20 years. So any resistance that was encountered was easily dismissed.

  That’s why our actual infrastructure of government favors Israel in places. Now why are we so actively supporting them instead of just letting the government do its thing? That comes down to one man and no one knows his reasons but him.

  Other suggestions - Christian End of The World Theology- This explains some grass roots support but not the majority of grass roots or the government’s support. The US government has historically been hostile to this theology.

  Oil - This doesn’t track. We’re in a big push to be independent of foreign oil and trying to transition to green energy. It could have been a reason 20 years ago, but not now.

  Military Asset - This was true until the cold ended. Now the US has bases all over the middle east and Turkey, a NATO ally, is emerging as a competent weapons manufacturer with far less support than we give Israel.

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• NutWrench@lemmy.world ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  1. It let’s the US government waste taxpayer money on military hardware to make the billionaire class even richer. Money that would be far better spent on US taxpayers.

  2. It panders to evangelicals, who need Israel to exist in order to fulfill their Book of Relations, End of The World, apocalyptic jerk-off fantasies.

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  • weew@lemmy.ca ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    It also lets them have a US military base in the middle East, where just about every other country hates the US

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• Bookmeat@lemmy.world ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  [deleted]

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  • Chainweasel@lemmy.world ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    I don’t disagree at all, But I feel like the only reason why the United States has any interest in controlling the Middle East is because of the oil.

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• rufus@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  After World War II, the British and the USA under president Truman willed the country of Israel into existence.

  • en.wikipedia.org/…/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_…
  • en.wikipedia.org/…/Anglo-American_Committee_of_In…

  There have been lots of ties between America and Israel and lots of people formerly living in the USA (and/or having fled there) emmigrated to Israel.

  Since then the stance hasn’t changed. The two countries have ties, are allied. And that’s the political side. As people pointed out here there are other sides to the story… Religuous beliefs of christians etc… And obviously it’s difficult to resign from a long relationship.

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• toasteecup@lemmy.world ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  It’s been a stance the US has had since the inception of Israel after ww2. Back then, the US had significantly more christians and christians tend to view jews as important because the bible says israel is where the end of days is supposed to start. After that decline, Israel has been viewed as an important ally for military reasons.

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  • BmeBenji@lemm.ee ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    This is what I was taught when I was a kid. Somewhere in the Bible I think it says “blessed are the allies of Israel” or something like that but that seems like a terrible reason to arm and fund a genocide so it seemed like there had to be a different reason

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    • toasteecup@lemmy.world ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      This will be one of the few times that having a bible thumping bitch of a step mother will come in handy. That’s definitely a verse but the story of end of days or “The Rapture” goes suchly

      The antichrist will return and work to reunite the peoples of the desert, while doing so, they will also rebuild the lost temple of israel and once complete will sit upon the throne at which point the great armies shall unite in the middle east in a furious bloodshed. The antichrist will bring peace to that fight and demand subserience from all man. At that point, the rapture will happen and then the final prophecies shall begin.

      For christians, this is seen as a good thing as they will be raptured and the good humans shall live in god’s final kingdom. For any of this to happen, Israel needs to exist.

      In short, dogma as fuck.

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• issastrayngewerldkbin@kbin.social ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  This is the question of the century. Maybe decades from now, there will be a book, then a movie. My only guess is that they have something dirty on our politicians. Something so egregious that they are willing to sacrifice almost everything to keep it quiet.

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  • angrynomad@infosec.pub ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

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    • Wanderer@lemm.ee ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      That seems based on statistics there are some serious breaches of racist hiring policies.

      Yet why can’t people talk about it? If you posted that for Irish descendants no one would have an issue complaining about their dodgy hiring procedures.

      That’s data driven and questions should be raised.

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    • angrynomad@infosec.pub ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Image

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• NeoNachtwaechter@lemmy.world ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Money.

  Serious masses of money in this country belongs to people there, and vice versa.

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• sosodev@lemmy.world ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  I’m sorry but this is actually a stupid question. Not only can nobody here answer it but it’s obviously flame bait.

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  • BmeBenji@lemm.ee ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    This isn’t flame bait. I honestly didn’t know. I’ve heard a mixture of confused ideas and wanted to see what people here thought

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    • sosodev@lemmy.world ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Strangers on the internet are not qualified to answer deeply complex questions like this despite what they might think.

      Foreign affairs is something that people dedicate their lives to studying and understanding. I seriously doubt those experts are here answering this question.

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• Hikermick@lemmy.world ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Isreal is screwed without the US. Without its backing it will turn to Russia. It’s a valuable ally for the US due to it’s location and intelligence services

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• GiddyGap@lemm.ee ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  There are lots of evangelicals. That’s the answer.

  There are also fewer and fewer evangelicals. So, it could change significantly over the next decade.

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• Furbag@lemmy.world ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  As much as people hate to hear the “it’s complicated” answer in regards to anything regarding Israeli affairs, well, it’s pretty complicated… But to name a few reasons:

  Religious fundamentalism/Zionism in the United States has been forcing politicians to take sides or else alienate their constituents - Christian fundamentalism is bizarrely in favor of a Jewish state because it fulfills their own doomsday prophecy, not for any logical reasons or out of a genuine desire to help the Jewish people.

  Weapons manufacturers and arms dealers are lobbying to keep Israel as a partner considering they are almost always mired in some kind of conflict. It’s a multi billion dollar industry and the people who make guns, bombs, artillery shells and ammunition are not keen of giving up their cash cow.

  Consider of course the historical ties and diplomatic agreements, which if flippantly broken send a message of unreliability to other allied nations (I’m not sure I totally agree with this one, as the USA is basically a schizo nation flipping back and forth once every 4-8 years between isolationism and globalism depending on which party holds office).

  Lastly, since the Cold War, the USA has kept Israel close to project their own influence in the middle east. Countries like Egypt or Saudi Arabia would have to think twice about provoking the United States considering who their neighbor is. Great strategic location bordering the Mediterranean Sea that makes it easy for USA to get soldiers on the continent if it ever comes to that.

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• fiend_unpleasant@lemmy.world ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Zionism

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• orcrist@lemm.ee ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  That depends who in the government you’re asking about. Every branch has their own motivation. For example, the military likes conflict happening elsewhere. Politicians want to be reelected. Racists like it when Arabs and Jews kill each other. And so on.

  (Of course that’s a vast simplification, but you gotta at least say who you are talking about to get a meaningful answer.)

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• xc2215x@lemmy.world ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Being a major ally of the USA.

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• BarbecueCowboy@kbin.social ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Israel has been near 100% loyal to the US since the two countries became friends. That doesn't mean they're perfect obviously, but their support of the US is near flawless, even when they probably should have thought twice.

  And then, on the other end, the government of Israel's key enemy is an organization that has been designated as a foreign terrorist organization by multiple countries including the EU.

  From a political standpoint, there's no compelling reason to do more than lip service. Have to remember, politics doesn't care about people.

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