Comment on Please consider supporting Lemmy development

rickyrigatoni@lemm.ee ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

• peregrin5@lemm.ee ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Just like with Elon Musk, if someone wants people to support them monetarily, they shouldn’t work hard to make themselves objectionable to wide swaths of the population they are trying to extract money from.

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  • Irelephant@lemm.ee ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    You can argue that, despite their opinions, the lemmy devs provide something of worth.

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    • peregrin5@lemm.ee ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Elon Musk made electric cars popular. Nazi scientists developed rocket technology. That’s all fine and good, but I’m still not going to give them my money.

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      • 4n41y4no5@crazypeople.online ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        He didnt made shit.

        You’re a freeloader

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    • hitmyspot@aussie.zone ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      So does nestlé, I still boycott them as our values don’t align.

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      • 4n41y4no5@crazypeople.online ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Nestlé products are shit

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  • person1@lemm.ee ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    This is not wrong

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• person1@lemm.ee ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Hmm glad I found this post and the comments. I recently came here from Reddit and joined some random communities just to have something in my feed. I was a bit shocked at hammer and sickle posted non-ironically in the meme group. Noting that communists weren’t better than Nazis got me called an ungrateful shit for existing (which I apparently owe to Stalin) and banned. Moved to the second-biggest meme community the search found, where I’m not banned yet but being educated by Westerners that life in communist coutries was cheerful and Holodomor was an oopsie.

  I’m glad to hear that this is not all that Lemmy stands for, but a bit disappointed learning that top developers are a part of the problem. I’m conflicted about donating to say the least, and it does not bode well for lemmy adoption in general. I’ll stick around to see if other servers gain momentum, but I’ll need to keep an eye open for other reddit alternatives I guess

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  • hakase@lemm.ee ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Most of Lemmy is fine - just avoid the tankie triad of lemmygrad, lemmy.ml, and hexbear and you should be good to go.

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    • AntiOutsideAktion@hexbear.net ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      And if you want instances where holocaust deniers turn their nose up and avoid, consider joining lemmygrad, lemmy.ml and hexbear!

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    • mathemachristian@lemm.ee ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Its supposed to be tankie TROIKA 😤

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    • person1@lemm.ee ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      I can certainly see that Hexbear and the other two are very vocal and toxic here. Engaging in some discussion or getting my views challenged is fine, I’d rather not close myself in a bubble, but it’s sad that they would be so quick to insult and ban you. It does worry that they have some of the biggest communities. I wish I could say “oh well the protocol is neutral” but I think that with most OSS projects it matters tremendously who is at the helm; also, another poster outlined quite well that these instances seem to be the showcase for the system.

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      • peregrin5@lemm.ee ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        They are only big by number because they are some of the oldest instances. The number of actually active users is less than .world or .ee.

        They only seem more active because they are terminally online and have communities that are specifically designed to brigade threads when they don’t like what’s posted.

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    • Ofiuco@lemmy.cafe ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      [deleted]

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      • nutomic@lemmy.ml ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        The roadmap contains a new feature for extended instance block, which also blocks all posts and comments from that instance’s users. If some feature is not implemented in Lemmy thats not out of malice, but because we really dont have time to work in everything that people ask for.

        github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy/issues/5578

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      • 4n41y4no5@crazypeople.online ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Oh nooo people I disagree with!! Terrible

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      • OpenStars@piefed.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        I moved to PieFed before it was fully ready, and I've been able to personally defederate from lemmy.ml by blocking all users since I did. No admin approval required. That feature alone was worth it to me to put up with the pain of the platform not being ready yet.

        Since then, the platform has greatly improved, and now has many MANY features that Lemmy (and a few that even Reddit) lacks. For example the most recent additions are polls and post flairs. Which tbf Lemmy has plans to add, but features languish in its roadmap for multiple years at a time so I would not expect them anytime "soon". Tbf Rust is a difficult language to work with, but that's just all the more reason to love PieFed, written in Python that many more people can contribute to. Which is what has been allowing it to add new features literally weekly as of late.

        PieFed is extremely nice - come check it out! Make an account, and by the time you get through the setup wizard you will already have fallen in love with it.:-)

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  • Carl@hexbear.net ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Noting that communists weren’t better than Nazis got me called an ungrateful shit for existing

    Calling communists as bad as a Nazis is a form of genocide denial. You deserved your ban and you should learn more about history before you comment on it.

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    • illi@lemm.ee ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Afaik Stalin is resoposible for more deaths than Hitler. Hitler had concentration camps, Stalin had gulags. Neither was much better than the other.

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      • AntiOutsideAktion@hexbear.net ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Gulag is the russian word for prison. It’s just really easy to make foreign words scary to racists.

        Afaik Stalin is resoposible for more deaths than Hitler.

        The literal uniform wearing german nazis that convinced you of this counted unborn children due to declining birthrates.

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      • Cowbee@lemmy.ml ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        The Nazis industrialized mass murder, and deliberately killed millions in the Holocaust. The Soviet prison system was in no way comparable to the Nazi concentration camps designed to murder and kill, this is Holocaust trivialization. Communism and fascism are entirely different, and conflating the two has roots in Double Genocide Theory, a form of Holocaust trivialization and Nazi Apologia. The Nazis industrialized murder and attempted to colonize the world, the Soviets uplifted the Proletariat and supported national liberation movements such as in Cuba, China, Algeria, and Palestine. I recommend reading Blackshirts and Reds.

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      • Kieselguhr@hexbear.net ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Afaik

        Afaik: written abbreviation for as far as I know: used when you believe that something is true, but you are not completely certain. Internet, email and texting conventions. a/s/l.

        See the thing is, you don’t know shit

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      • Alaskaball@hexbear.net ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        a bunch of off-topic yakking related to your comment but detracts from the overall post.

        1, how the West treats the word gulag - as seen by your application equivocating them to nazi death camps - is not reflective of reality of it being applied as a catch-all term for prisons. 2, the highest deaths that occured in the Soviet penal system occured during ww2 with source of deaths primarily stemming from nazi POWs 3, the commonly cited numbers of deaths that occured in the Soviet penal system comes from an openly flawed and biased methodology chosen exclusively to fabricate a false reality that equivocates nazi fascism with Soviet communism, which was further boosted by the CIA during the cold war to smear their ideological opposition’s image. The real numbers have been revealed with the opening of the Soviet archives after the fall of the Soviet Union, allowing actual historians to access primary sources to clear up the cold war era historical revisionism that obscured our understanding of the truth for the past 80 years. 4, this is not to say the system ran in that era is flawless. It in fact had blemishes and flaws that stemmed from the monstrously brutal tsarist regimn that the Soviets overthrew. That said even at its worst during the second world War its own brutality is dwarfed by the American penal system from back then to this very moment. Here’s an article that discusses “double genocide theory”, which dissects the fact that equivocating the worst excesses that occured under the Soviet Union as being anything remotely near the monstrous crimes against humanity perpetrated by the German Nazi regimn is to commit and engage in Holocaust denialism jewishcurrents.org/the-double-genocide-theory Here’s an excerpt from a book that lightly delves into the numbers, but there’s plenty of other information floating around as well. hexbear.net/post/136521?scrollToComments=false

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      • 4n41y4no5@crazypeople.online ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Congo had giant work camps.

        Pretty much every ideology have commited awful shit. Nazism is the only ideology where genocide is the end goal of the state.

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  • Cowbee@lemmy.ml ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Communism and fascism are entirely different, and conflating the two has roots in Double Genocide Theory, a form of Holocaust trivialization and Nazi Apologia. The Nazis industrialized murder and attempted to colonize the world, the Soviets uplifted the Proletariat and supported national liberation movements such as in Cuba, China, Algeria, and Palestine. I recommend reading Blackshirts and Reds.

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    • hakase@lemm.ee ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Person1, since you’re new here, this is Cowbee, our resident tankie apologist/propagandist.

      The most reasonable-sounding genocide denier and authoritarian regime supporter this side of the gulags. I highly recommend their alt’s comments on Hexbear if you’re interested in their more “mask off” persona.

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      • Cowbee@lemmy.ml ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Quite an introduction, and quite a lot of slander. I’m a Communist, Marxist, Marxist-Leninist, etc, regardless of how you want to call me. I’m certainly not a genocide denier, and I’d say all governments are “authoritarian,” what matters is which class is exerting its authority. My goal is in fact to dispel myths surrounding Marxism, Marxism-Leninism, Communism, etc.

        If they check my Hexbear account, they’ll see more conversation surrounding gaming and casual conversation, haha.

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      • AntiOutsideAktion@hexbear.net ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Read this person’s profile and you will find that they are an absolute unhinged psycho who trolls threads like these AND HAS BEEN AT IT FOR LITERAL YEARS hexbear.net/comment/4466837

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      • 4n41y4no5@crazypeople.online ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Talking third person about someone is very rude.

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    • dragonfucker@lemmy.nz ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Nobody wants to argue with Cowbee

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  • Alaskaball@hexbear.net ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Noting that communists weren’t better than Nazis got me called an ungrateful shit for existing (which I apparently owe to Stalin) and banned.

    According to the mod logs the only thing you copped a ban for is being uncivil you ungrateful little shit

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    • M0oP0o@mander.xyz ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      reason: Rule 1

      From the modlog that seems to be a ban without explanation, as is tradition. Since there is no explanation on these “rule 1” bans (temporary or not) I tend to take them in the worst possible light. And since the first two (and only other mod actions) where to remove “I’m going to take a wild guess that posters and downvoters in this thread don’t live in actual communist countries. Endorsing hammer and sickle is just as bad as endorsing swastikas…” and “Yeah great, because what we need now is soviet propaganda. This needs to die” according to the mod logs their story checks out.

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      • Alaskaball@hexbear.net ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        You’re more than entitled to believe anything other than the facts.

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      • person1@lemm.ee ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Thank you for taking the trouble to fact-check!

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  • dragonfucker@lemmy.nz ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Drag is an anarchist and banned from lemmy.ml for being left wing, so drag hopes you will listen with an open mind to this:

    Karl Marx said that communism is stateless. That means in communism, the government has no authority to coerce people. Authoritarianism isn’t communism. In fact, Joseph Stalin never claimed that the USSR had achieved communism. He said they’d achieved socialism, and he made empty promises that it would be communist at some point in the future.

    You know where communism was actually successfully implemented? America and Australia. Karl Marx and his friends were inspired by the Haudenosaunee people of North America. Marx called it “primitive communism”.

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    • nutomic@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      You are not banned from lemmy.ml

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      • dragonfucker@lemmy.nz ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Huh. Drag misremembered. It was just a community ban performed by the lemmy.ml admins, and it’s expired

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        Drag will have to unblock that community and post more leftist history until the ban is permanent. Shouldn’t take long.

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    • 4n41y4no5@crazypeople.online ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      While the capital-state complex exists, the material reality is that not all states are equal. Internationalism requires us to focus on our own oppressor and trust the rest of the worldwide proletarian to fight theirs in the way they see fit.

      As a westerner, I do not have the right to tell Chinese people or any other nation that they live under a dictatorship. I have the duty to fight against the regime I live in. Otherwise, I am only participating in warmongering antagonism that is only benefitting the oligarchy.

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      • dragonfucker@lemmy.nz ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Every state burns oil. Therefore every state is oppressing drag. You logic would only work if they weren’t harming everyone. Besides, the Palestinians and the Ukrainians have asked for our help.

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• Alaskaball@hexbear.net ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Get off your high wooden horse and stomp your way back to reddit

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  • rickyrigatoni@lemm.ee ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    If not supporting genocide and authoritarianism is a high horse to you, you might want to invest in a step ladder.

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    • Alaskaball@hexbear.net ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      You wouldn’t know what a genocidal and authoritarian regime looked like even if you lived in it you reddit-brained hack

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      • hakase@lemm.ee ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Hexbears gonna hexbear.

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    • Kieselguhr@hexbear.net ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      If not supporting genocide and authoritarianism

      They support Israel?

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      • Allah@lemm.ee ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        chill there are arabs settlers in syria and iraq as well and pashtun settlers in afghanistan

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• Jimbabwe@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  What actions of the developers are you talking about? I’m not trying to start a fight, I’m honestly out of the loop or whatever.

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  • infeeeee@lemm.ee ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    See some stories here: !meanwhileongrad@sh.itjust.works

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  • GoodEye8@lemm.ee ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I imagine the biggest point are the censorship, disinformation and tankie allegations. These are all documented in this post. Another point worth bringing up is that they are the admins of lemmy.ml, where most of the allegations happen. Lemmy.ml also has something of a tankie problem and one of the devs has said that the donations will also cover the cost of running the instance. So by donating to the devs you’re also donating to an instance that possibly has no problem with censorship, disinformation and harboring tankies.

    I would be willing to turn a blind eye if I could trust the devs to step away from lemmy.ml and focus solely on the development of Lemmy. But I don’t trust the devs enough to actually do that so I personally won’t be supporting Lemmy development until someone else becomes the maintainer of Lemmy.

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    • conditional_soup@lemm.ee ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      AND it’s open source software. Nothing is stopping anyone from just forking Lemmy.

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      • 4n41y4no5@crazypeople.online ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Freeloader

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    • nutomic@lemmy.ml ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      lemmy.ml is part of Lemmy development as it is used to test new versions before release, take performance measurements and have first-hand experience with the mod tools. If I stepped away from lemmy.ml it would make Lemmy worse and cause more problems for other instance admins. In any case the costs for lemmy.ml hosting are already covered at a much lower donation level, anything you contribute goes directly to developer salaries.

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      • hakase@lemm.ee ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        lemmy.ml is part of Lemmy development as it is used to test new versions before release, take performance measurements and have first-hand experience with the mod tools.

        Then you really shouldn’t be surprised that people don’t want to donate when part of that support goes toward an instance that openly and aggressively supports authoritarian regimes and genocide denial, and brutally censors any dissenting viewpoints.

        If I stepped away from lemmy.ml it would make Lemmy worse and cause more problems for other instance admins.

        The other option, of course, would be to run lemmy.ml in a way that doesn’t actively piss off the majority of Lemmy users, but that doesn’t seem to be a path you’re willing to consider.

        Honestly, as much as I disagree with your politics I’d probably donate anyway because of how great Lemmy is, if only you developed behind the scenes and weren’t personally responsible for one of the worst places on the platform. As it is, as long as both a) lemmy.ml continues to be run the way it is and b) you continue to have an active part in that instance’s abhorrent behavior, I can’t in good conscience give you any financial support.

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      • Ledivin@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        They should try just using it for development instead of forcing out tankie propaganda, then.

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      • GoodEye8@lemm.ee ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        I’ve given it some more thought. There’s no guarantee that money going to the developers won’t be used to for the instance they are financing. If I give you money and the lemmy.ml funds are empty, are you going to let lemmy.ml die? Considering you said it is used to test new versions of lemmy and measure performance and test how effective the mod tools are I don’t think you would let lemmy.ml die. You’d finance it yourself, most likely from the money that is donated for the development of lemmy. So separating lemmy development and lemmy.ml instance costs wouldn’t really change the situation.

        But I also no longer think it’s inherently necessary to step away from lemmy.ml. I get the value a real instance would give to development, so what I think needs to happen is a shift in what lemmy.ml is supposed to be. If the purpose of lemmy.ml is to support the development of lemmy then the primary goal of the instance should be that. Clearly the biggest issue people have is politics and how lemmy.ml is used as a vessel to push a certain kind of political agenda, which means if the primary goal is to support development then the instance right now contradicts its primary goal. It’s dissuading people from donating to the development and it’s making the main developers (you in this case) focus on the drama (for the lack of a better word) instead of spending time developing. I think the solution is pretty simple, lemmy.ml should take a hard anti-politics stance. Do a purge and kick all politics off the instance, including instance users who discuss politics on other instances. Have it be memes, technology, privacy and FOSS and gaming and everything else that doesn’t necessarily lead to politics. Users who want to take part in political discourse can find instances that allow political discourse, and that includes you and Dessalines. If you want to be political create an alt account on a different instance. Communities that want to be political can find other instances to be in political. You don’t need politics to run lemmy.ml. And for the sake of clarity also add to the instance about section that the instance exists to support lemmy development because currently that is not written anywhere.

        If you think that’s unfair to the current users of lemmy.ml I honestly don’t see how you could resolve this situation without stepping away from lemmy.ml.

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    • OpenStars@piefed.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Mbin is one example, PieFed is another. Both are superb!:-)

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  • mathemachristian@lemm.ee ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    They’re ^communists^ 😱

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    • gamermanh@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Tankies, specifically

      Authoritarian commies who have very different-from-reality opinions and word definitions

      Oh, and transphobia

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      • towelie@lemm.ee ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        It’s so funny to me when I express an even remotely moderate opinion and get called a right-winger. Lol, is lemmy really where right-wingers would go for online discourse?

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      • mathemachristian@lemm.ee ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        tankie is just the new scary sounding word for communist derived from when the soviet union helped defeat a CIA backed color-revolution in Hungary

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    • peregrin5@lemm.ee ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      They’re ^communists^ transphobic, class reductionists, support Russian invasion of Ukraine, support Uyghur genocide, support N. Korean dictators, worked hard to ensure Republicans won US elections, run an instance where they act like the authoritarian dictators they love and ban everyone who disagrees with them for being “liberals” 😱

      FTFY

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      • 4n41y4no5@crazypeople.online ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        WorKed HarD to enSurE rePub woN

        Let me guess, they actually talked about Gaza? Funny how the libs are now mad at Palestinians for costing them the elections.

        A few days ago one of the worldists got banned for saying shit like “Palestinians deserved it”. His history was full of those sarcastic remarks about how trump was so much better for gaza

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• lily33@lemm.ee ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  This is bs, because you - and perhaps almost everyone else here - are supporting monetarily much worse people than the Lemmy developers.

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• 4n41y4no5@crazypeople.online ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Then move

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  • doctortran@lemm.ee ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Freeloading where? They can be donating to the instance they are on.

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• Sibshops@lemm.ee ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  You can support lemm.ee, then, instead?

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  • rickyrigatoni@lemm.ee ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I might as well since I probably gave Sunaurus a big headache with this thread.

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• 1984@lemmy.today ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Those places suck and doesnt even have quality apps…

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  • rickyrigatoni@lemm.ee ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    If those issues keep you off them, I’m good with that.

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    • Binette@lemmy.ml ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      I had them blocked for misogyny, no wonder lol

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    • 1984@lemmy.today ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Yeah? I dont agree its transphobic to want women to still be competetive in the sports they are competing in. And thats my opinion.

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      • Neoinvin@lemm.ee ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        showing an unbelievable lack of understanding and your whole ass on the internet huh? you’re entitled to your opinion, like everyone else. but it sure is a stupid one.

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      • AnyOldName3@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        The Olympics have allowed trans women to compete against cis women since the 90s, and yet there’s never been a trans medalist. If there was a genuine advantage to being trans in sport, at least one country in the past three decades would have loaded their team with trans women and cleaned house. However, taking enough hormones to make a masculine body into a feminine one after it’s already grown means you’ve got way less testosterone than a cis woman, so that counters out any initial advantage. Claiming otherwise is misinformation. Spreading misinformation to the detriment of trans people is transphobic.

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      • 4n41y4no5@crazypeople.online ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        That’s idiotic. We have weight classes to take care of body differences already. Are you also advocating for sport to be racially segregated?

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• OpenStars@piefed.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Mbin, not Kbin. Kbin is dead.

  There actually is one instance left, a tiny little hold-over in Poland, last I checked, but everyone else that was using Kbin has since switched to Mbin.

  Except me personally, who switched to PieFed (which is fantastic btw!:-).

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