Submitted 13 hours ago by Patnou@lemmy.world to [deleted]
I don’t and have never believed it because I really don’t think our government is that smart to pull off something like that.
Well, it is known (or at least it should be) that a false flag attack on civilian targets to rally the population against an enemy is not beyond the US government. Not saying 9/11 was, just that there is reason for suspicion imo
This is only my speculation as a non-expert who grew up in the 9/11 era.
There will always be conspiracy theories about everything, in large part because people feel a need both to be smarter than everyone else and to have an explanation for why things happen. The world is a big, chaotic place and it’s scary to think about how few things are really under control by a small number of people because in reality they’re the result of the infinitely complex interactions that make up life and society on our planet.
America was a country that had really not been threatened on its home turf since Pearl Harbor and many living in the 90s truly believed that we were untouchable on our own continent. It was a rude awakening when we saw that we were not and that others could hurt us if they really wanted to.
As a leftist I’ve never really liked these conspiracy theories in large part because they reek of American exceptionalism, whether intentionally or not. America is too powerful so it had to be an inside job. Our engineering is too good so it had to be a controlled demolition.
No, we got punched in the face, and I think that a lot of people not being able to accept that is a big part of where the conspiracy theories come from.
You haven’t really addressed the 9/11 conspiracy in any way, but merely why conspiracies exist in general.
Generally, I agree with you. Conspiracies are perpetuated because people like to think they have special knowledge possessed by only a few. Also, a “conspiracy theory” is almost by definition unsupported by evidence. I’m a big fan of taking the advice of people more knowledgeable than me regarding their interpretation of evidence.
I don’t really know the details of 9/11, but I will say that a lot of credible people seem to support the false flag perspective.
One of the more convincing arguments I’ve seen isn’t necessarily that it was an inside job, rather that the people who could have prevented the disaster had motive to stand by and watch as it unfolded.
Lots of weird things in the years leading up to 9/11 don’t necessarily directly support this but they do add fuel to conspiracy theories…like the Project for the New American Century calling for a permanent US presence in the Middle East. Just a few years later and some of its signatories are handed the perfect casus belli allowing them to station troops in the Middle East.
Nothing concrete, just stuff that’s kinda weird enough for conspiracy theories.
So I’ve been on the inside of a small crisis while at work and can easily see how the mixture of hubris and mistakes and events out of our control and rushing to present the most positive picture in the aftermath and take advantage of the events.
I’m working on an internal project, a recognition platform, with a few others at work that hasn’t been put out there yet. We just finished setting it up on the technical side, set up a bunch of programs on the platform, got user data uploads and single sign on set up. We figured since nobody really knows about it yet or can find it anywhere, we didnt have to worry about people signing in and using it before the launch. Well, there was an automated email that went out to all the managers from a platform we haven’t announced yet and a few people start signing in and using it before we’re fully ready for launch. We scramble to shut everything down, and send out a message out to everyone who got the automated email basically doing our best to save face and after the dust settled, we discussed what went wrong, where our mistakes were, and what we learned, we did come out of the other side knowing the new platform did work and was very easy to use.
On the inside it was basically a comedy of errors that we gained some nice insights from. From the outside I can easily see a conspiracy minded person being like “they purposefully leaked the whole thing to test if they could get away with it and preplant the ideas in our heads.”
I really think my minor crisis experience is closer to what happened on 9/11 than some mustache twirling villainous conspiracy with secret cabals micromanaging the entire thing. I think not taking the initial reports seriously enough by 2 separate presidents, led to a major crisis unfolding, and the aftermath being a lot of useful consent manufacturing to pass a ton of draconian legislation.
“People think it had to be an inside job because they think no one else could hurt America.” Am I reading that right? That is the most bonkers anti-conspiracy take I’ve ever heard.
People believe conspiracies are real because they don’t trust the government. I don’t know if you’re aware, but they’re absolutely fucking right. The government isn’t even trying to hide their conspiracies now.
This one is always fun:
9/10: Sec Def Rumsfeld announces $9T missing in Pentagon audit
9/11: only 2 copies of investigation records are destroyed by plane crashes.
Also Clinton looking at intel (based on credible statements from people involved in the first wtc attack and plane bombing that no one remembers anymore because relatively few people died) related to bin Laden planning “a huge attack” in the final few months of his presidency and being like “ehhhh”
Then bush looking at the same intel and being like “ehhh”
Then 10 years later Clinton writes about it in his autobiography as his biggest regret
The thing that the loose change crowd got wrong is that it wasn’t that 9/11 was straight up planned by the USA, it’s more that it was allowed to happen. Whether that’s due to incompetence, truly a belief that it wouldn’t be all that big of a deal (which, tbf, was easily possible), or opportunistic is debatable. Regardless, the opportunistic got quite a lot out of it
Yeah I’m on the side of “let it happen.”
But what about Tower 7
Yea, apparently everyone is sure is not an inside job but nobody knows how building 7 collapsed with no people inside during a working day. I guess building just do that sometimes, the psyop is going strong here.
That’s always the odd one. I know there were connections underground between the twin towers and tower 7. The only thing I can think is some of the fire/energy from collapsing went through those tunnels and messed with the structure of building 7.
I have no training in buildings or structural integrity.
It caught on again post-ironically when people gained hindsight about how overboard we took the war on terror and the Great WMD Hunt.
Admitting how fucking hard up average everyday Americans were to invade a fucking country after 9/11? Lots of emotional work involved
Pretending Dubya tricked us into a 20-year war and sending our kids and friends to die in a desert? No as difficult emotionally
I never saw the actual footage of the crashes until some years ago. My first reaction was “this looks like a demolition, physics doesn’t work like that lol” but then I researched more and I arrived at the conclusion that was an inside job. ¯_(ツ)_/¯ I don’t understand how people still think a plane crash can collapse a skyscraper vertically but ok.
No. The only way i see it is that they conquested and butchered people for so many years. 9/11 was a backlash. But there not evidence to suggest it was a false flag.
Patnou shut up before you get disappeared
I was really impressed when I watched Zeitgeist for the first time
Me too. They just had a great way of narrating and all the Egypt stuff was interesting. In hindsight you can see however what kind of unscientific trash Zeitgeist was.
From what I’ve replayed in recent years, yeah not great. But it certainly inspired me to question narratives, which has actually been quite beneficial.
I can’t say how it started, but it gained most of it’s momentum when Loose Change came out. It almost fooled me the first time I watched it, in 2006/2007. Before that, it was Alex Jones and a handful of traditional conspiracy theorists, but not normies.
Notyou@sopuli.xyz 1 hour ago
Proof that all conspiracies about it are wrong www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=911_moro…
But seriously, they used it for their gain and passed the Patriot Act. I don’t think they planned it, but them knowing ‘something’ will happen and just letting it, I might believe.
I can see trump instigating anyone and everyone, so some terrorist attack happens. Then they use that to gain more power. I’ve heard plenty of people mentioning his mid-term plans.