Do you think that Edward Snowden is a hero?

Comments

• RhondaSandTits@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Yes.

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• aesthelete@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Almost but not quite. If he would’ve stayed here and faced the music then it’s an unqualified yes, but his fleeing to Russia and hiding out there makes it a maybe to me.

  I understand that he still was brave and gave up a lot to expose the information, but I think it may have had more impact, and would’ve been more heroic had he stayed here.

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  • A_norny_mousse@piefed.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    He didn’t flee to Russia - he was going somewhere else and got stuck in Moscow on a layover because the US revoked his passport.

    That said, I don’t like him staying there either, but maybe he really cannot leave.

    I completely disagree about “facing the music” - it would have been a guaranteed and long prison sentence.

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    • Tollana1234567@lemmy.today ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      doesnt look hes safe if he travels to any country that would extradite him to the US. i assume russian friendly country is all he will go to.

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  • Objection@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    That’s completely ridiculous.

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  • Tollana1234567@lemmy.today ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    his passport was revoked while in russia, russia(putin allowed him to stay) of course this serves a purpose as it provides propaganda against the west as well.

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• menas@lemmy.wtf ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  No, his behavior shall be average, not an exception. However we have to fight the repression that target him, like every other one that stand against repression

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• tubthumper@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Anybody notice a stock “Now Playing” app has automatically downloaded on their Android without their knowledge at some point?

  Because I definitely want my phone always listening just in case there’s a song I don’t know that can be identified by an app I’m not even aware of!

  God I need a dumb phone.

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  • Anonymous_Leaker@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    This could be a coincidence, but I was randomly eating watermelon and then this. Image

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  • pucker4676@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I have zero regerts going to GrapheneOS. Still, I understand wanting to go back to a dumb phone. I miss the old internet.

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    • Sidyctism2@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      NO RAGRETS

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  • MrScottyTay@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Now playing has been a thing since the pixel 3. I think it works by having an on device set of hashes for the starts of songs and listens for them snippets to then show it on your lock screen for what would be the duration of the song or until it hears another.

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    • tubthumper@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Thank you for giving me more background here! I was vaguely aware of this feature but believe I disabled it earlier on (along with other unused features and app permissions en masse) so the surprise app was a shock. I’m tech-aware but not savvy at this point so I just risk mitigate where I can.

      I don’t have experience with Shazam or similar for context, so do most apps like this utilize snippet hashes on device? (headed to wiki but thought I’d ask)

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  • xistera@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    It was a Pixel feature that they turned into a standalone app.

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  • Nalivai@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Man, knowing nothing about what you’re talking about and being confidently paranoid is an amazing way to actually miss the ways the corpos are fucking you.
    It’s too complicated to even begin to describe why what you’re saying is embarrassingly wrong, and that’s actually ok, not knowing how your phone works is not something against you, being confidently incorrect and not even wanting to learn is.

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    • tubthumper@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Thanks, man. Been having a shit week. Literally just noticed this standalone app today. Have actually had problems with paranoia before. Though it should go without saying to anyone that my second paragraph has an obvious /s attached it.

      But again, thanks so much for telling me I’m embarrassing and I don’t want to learn anything, even if I posted this on a literal no stupid questions page, with an open ended question, akin to “does anybody else…?”

      Yeah, okay. I do want to learn.

      I especially want to learn to make sure I never explain anything to anyone like you just did to me.

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  • irelephant@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Isn’t that purely on device?

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    • Candice_the_elephant@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      It is. Unless you have you’ve attracted the attention of a state level spy agency, then it’s a useful tool in the arsenal of weaknesses on your device.

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• book@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  I would like to see the presidential parden used for him. I think Snowden had honorable intentions but went about releasing the information (to trusted journalists) in the wrong way. I think he should have gone to the OIG, i dont think he did, and after trying that gone to journalists. However, i cant really fault him, its hard to know what to do in the moment. I probably would not have released documents in his place.

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  • Aatube@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    what would’ve going to the OIG achieved?

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• HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  hero is a useless word. it’s what you call someone to avoid having to do anything concrete to thank them

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• Zannsolo@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Nope, I think he’s probably a Russian asset. IMO if you are willing to break the law because you believe strongly enough it’s the right thing to do you should be willing to face the consequences. His message would be a lot stronger coming from a jail cell instead of an enemy state.

  Every day he was in jail would drive further public outcry.

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  • FluorideMind@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Lmao ok buddy.

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• RobotToaster@mander.xyz ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  I think he’s a monster, in the classical sense, that is.

  The Latin monstrum, had a broader meaning, encompassing any kind of warning from he gods (demonstrate has the same root). Rulers then, just as now, weren’t very observant of subtle hints, so back then this often took the form of godzilla wrecking shit.

  Take the story of Laomedon, the Trojan king. After having some very nice city walls built for him, he neglected the small matter of actually paying his workers. Unfortunately for him said workers happened to be gods, who have slightly more bargaining power than your average worker, with the eventual industrial action including a cetus, a kind of sea monster, sent by Poseidon.

  Rather annoyed at having his shit wrecked by a sea monster, Laomedon enlisted Heracles to kill it. Which, of course, being a hero, Heracles did very heroically. Now Laomedon, being a complete fucking moron, failed to learn absolutely anything from this, and decided it was a good idea stiff Heracles out of payment for this task.

  In response, Heracles raised an army, besieged Troy, and killed Laomedon and his sons. This bought the matter to a close.

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  • TrickDacy@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    What a pretentious and overly laborious comparison.

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    • RobotToaster@mander.xyz ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Thank you, I try my best.

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  • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    🤔

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• raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Most of us here are more of a hero, because we had the backbone to never actually work for those fascist services to begin with.

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  • Anonymous_Leaker@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    “Most of us here are more of a hero” Did you risk your life too?

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    • raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      You missed the point. To get that kind of knowledge, he first had to subscribe to the evil team. Which he did. It would be different if he had joined from the beginning with the motive to expose unlawful practices by the services. It is more heroic to not join team evil in the first place.

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  • A_norny_mousse@piefed.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Government institution = fascist services. Nice. Remind me to not march beside you when we finally take down the oligarchs.

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    • raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      With the understanding that secret police is on your side, you will never take down anyone.

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    • technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Government institution = fascist services.

      The NSA? Yes ofc.

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  • Maeve@kbin.earth ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I'm going to disagree a little bit. Even if you work for a small private company, you're still complicit. Create or make some niche product and sell IRL/online, you're still complicit. Using the device I'm on, I'm complicit. The only way to not be any kind of complicit is to never be born. And we don't get a say. If we had survival skills, we may manage to stay offgrid, hunt, fish, steal for subsistence until we die or go to prison, then complicit again.

    It's a matter of degrees, and I maintain we don't all at once sell our souls in one grand bargain, signed on our own blood. It's more of being, if you'll excuse the analogy, being born a sinner with the only absolution, especially for those without means, is to simply die. And survival instinct is strong.

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    • raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      We don’t disagree - I commented something very similar deeper down in this thread. have no idea how to link it here though on mobile - my apologies.

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• Impractical_Island@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  He’s a spy, obviously

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• HappySkullsplitter@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  No. I know he meant well though.

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• woodytrombone@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  I’ll take my downvotes. No, I don’t think he is.

  I think if he were, he’d have

  • limited his disclosure to the programs he had an actual issue with
  • at least attempted the normal whistleblower procedure through OGC
  • gathered his data by social engineering staff in specific projects and not anyone he could in his office

  Personally, my profile of Snowden is someone who has a large ego and lashed out because he was a small fish in a large NSA pond. The “whistleblower” story was generated by propagandists to encourage copycats by digging through the massive disclosures and finding one or two uncomfortable things to latch on to. Snowden played along because he had to; he was now at the mercy of U.S. adversaries to give him safe harbor.

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• RodgeGrabTheCat@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Yes. But he did screw up by not getting to his final destination before meeting with the reporters.

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  • Maeve@kbin.earth ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Also taking to NY Crimes. Or any Western media.

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  • HubertManne@piefed.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    He did not even have a final destination in mind. he kinda fled in a reactionary type of way. What he did was great but yeah he did not put enough thought into it.

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    • RodgeGrabTheCat@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      His plan was worse than I thought.

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• the_wizard_of_0Z@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  He was in too deep… learned something crazy… lacked the sociopathy too keep a secret. Conflicted and flexed on he said fuck it… then became the friend of the bully next door. or he is a phcyop that hides a bigger secret. What if the whole ass world is just one big dragnet and we all are caught inbetween capitalist cartel families and their desires. As time progresses we will all see war as the meat grinder it is and abondon the idea of escape and embrace rebellion. I don’t worship idols. No gods no masters.

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• A_norny_mousse@piefed.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  He was in 2013. And that’s what counts.

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• garbage_world@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  I approve of what he did, but I don’t approve of his ideals.

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  • TWeaK@lemmy.today ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I mean he did coin/popularise the phrase “Saying you don’t care about privacy because you have nothing to hide is like saying you don’t care about free speech because you have nothing to say.”

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    • garbage_world@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      I hate this phrase. I mean, it ain’t false, but this argument has the same logic as if I would say: “Saying grass is green is like saying sky is blue”.

      This phrase cleaverly relates 2 unrealted things to manipulate the recipient.

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• nomekxtz@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Yes

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• racoon@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  He is not a villain, he is not a simple human, what else could be

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• GreenKnight23@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Snowden is a symptom of a larger surveillance problem. the actions he took were neither good nor bad.

  allying himself with Russia only helped distract the American public from his actual intentions and allowed The State discredit him further.

  his actions also allowed other organizations like Wikileaks to gain positive attention which ultimately allowed Trump and his corrupt administration a foothold into circumventing American democracy.

  in short, he was an unexpected but useful pawn in the journey to destroy the American hegemony which has directly benefited organized fascism.

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  • DupaCycki@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    allying himself with Russia

    My brother. Russia was the literal last place to escape to on his list. No other country would grant him asylum due to direct calls from Obama and Biden (mostly Biden).

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    • GreenKnight23@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      so if his goal was to inform Americans to the dangers of a surveillance state, why would he discredit himself by allying with Americas oldest enemy?

      why go through all of it, just to throw it away on some frail sense of freedom from Russia?

      if he was as righteous as y’all believe him to be, he would have came back and made a mockery of the administration.

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• technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  No. He’s just another dude like anybody else.

  He lived a life of serving empire. It’s admirable that he repented but that doesn’t make him a hero, especially versus people who have spent their lives doing good all along.

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• echodot@feddit.uk ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  I still like the fact that he released so many documents that when the newspaper tried to open the file it broke Excel, so he had to come in and fix it.

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  • Anonymous_Leaker@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Side note-How much percentage of the Epstein files released? Maybe he could have helped if he knew.

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• cockmushroom@reddthat.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  He did the right thing after having mªde a career doing the wrong thing. He’s not a hero by any standard that hasn’t been bastardized by american culture. Just a guy wo finally did something non-harmful.

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  • axus@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Set back the dictatorship schedule by 10 years, we only caught up just now

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• garbage_world@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  He’s a criminal.

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  • ironycanal@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Nobody in history you consider a hero ever did crimes.

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    • garbage_world@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      No, he’s not a criminal for what he did, but for admiring privacy

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• LovableSidekick@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  I think this, like most binary shorhand common on social media, would be a superficial analysis.

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• Digit@lemmy.wtf ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Basically have ceased using mobile phones since he confirmed our “paranoid” suspicions. Boggles my mind how others can carry on. It’s like they’ve been hypnotised out of understanding their duty to poke big baron in the eye.

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• brachiosaurus@mander.xyz ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  He did good and did something heroic but the title of hero should be reserved to actual heroes that never chose once to side with scum. Before turning out as good this guy was serving in the US army

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• the_wizard_of_0Z@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Anonymous == State Actor … not a hero. They like super man or batman for people who don’t understand tech and geopolitics. I am not worried about hackers… I am worried about billionares now trillionares, corpos and the deep state. Couple harassed with live bugs and bloody pig mask settles eBay lawsuit

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  • Anonymous_Leaker@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Nobody is calling anonymous heroes. You are going all wacko on me.

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    • Maeve@kbin.earth ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Anon has done heroic things and horrific things. Exposing scientologist embedment everywhere and their cruelty, for example. Again, USA shrugged.

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• FatVegan@leminal.space ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  I think pretty much everywhere except tge us

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• dis_honestfamiliar@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Hmm… Interesting essay question. I think for the year it happened, yes-ish. Had it been today, it would have been like whatevs, because everyone is giving away their privacy in exchange for some functionally. And so, as I think back on it, it didn’t really mattered. I think this could’ve been debated either way.

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• PalmTreeIsBestTree@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Not a fan of his personal views but he did do a good thing at the very least

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