Open Menu
AllLocalCommunitiesAbout
lotide
AllLocalCommunitiesAbout
Login

Why a ton, and not a megagram?

⁨152⁩ ⁨likes⁩

Submitted ⁨⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨JackGreenEarth@lemm.ee⁩ to ⁨[deleted]⁩

source

Comments

Sort:hotnewtop
  • rufus@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    I think it’s written ‘tonne’. And you should call it metric tonne if it’s not clear from the context.

    Wikipedia says:

    The tonne is a unit of mass equal to 1000 kilograms. It is a non-SI unit accepted for use with SI. It is also referred to as a metric ton to distinguish it from the non-metric units of the short ton (United States customary units) and the long ton (British imperial units). The official SI unit is the megagram (symbol: Mg), a less common way to express the same amount.

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonne

    source
    • supercriticalcheese@feddit.it ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      It’s typically shortened as t.

      Normally it’s clear from the context and what units you are using so there is no ambiguity.

      source
      • rufus@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        I’m not so sure. But maybe you’re right. I thing I was confusing that with tonnage of a ship. But that’s a whole other concept and you can’t really confuse the two.

        With the 1000 t thats only because kg is a stupid SI unit and leads to the whole debacle. If there wasn’t a prefix in the unit name itself, I think people would have started to use the SI unit prefixes correctly at some point instead of inventing and omitting other names to compensate.

        I think I’ve heard things like megatonne. For example you can say your nuclear bomb has X megaton tnt equivalent.

        source
        • -> View More Comments
    • PP_BOY_@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      For example we also say it’s 20 degrees celsius outside. And that’s not the proper SI unit either

      Can you elaborate on this? As an American without much experience with the SI system, I wouldn’t think twice if someone said this to me

      source
      • Krukenberg@feddit.ch ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        The SI unit for temperature is Kelvin

        source
      • rufus@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        What would you like to know? Regarding temperatures: ‘Kelvin’ is the proper SI unit. It starts with 0 at absolute zero. And then uses the same size for units as celsius uses. So 0°C (the point at which ice made from water melts) is 273.15 Kelvin. 20°C about where you’d wear a t-shirt is about 293 K. So we don’t say it that way but keep saying it’s 15 or 30°C outside.

        Scientists do it right. When you’re melting metal or talking about the temperature of the sun, you won’t have small numbers anyways and you won’t use celsius. You can translate it easily, anyways. Just add and substract the 273.15. You don’t need a formula and a calculator like when you translate between farenheit and celsius.

        source
        • -> View More Comments
    • ProvokedGamer@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Wait, what’s the correct SI unit for 20 degrees Celsius then? I’ve never heard anything besides that.

      source
  • cecilkorik@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    No good reason, just historical inertia and resistance to change. People stick to what they’re familiar with, either the imperial system or to common metric units. Making a “metric ton” similar in size to an “imperial ton” arguably helped make it easier for some people to transition to metric.

    Megagram is a perfectly cromulent unit, just like “cromulent” is a perfectly cromulent word, but people still don’t use it very often. That’s just how language works. People use the words they prefer, and those words become common. Maybe if you start describing things in megagrams other people will also start doing it and it will become a common part of the language. Language is organic like that, there isn’t anyone making decisions on its behalf, although some people and organizations try.

    source
    • 13esq@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      The sort of personal that insists on calling a ton a megagram is probably going to be the same sort of insufferable Jimmy Neutron arsehole that insists on calling salt “sodium chloride”, yes you’re technically correct, but people experience food as salty and no one is going to say “this food is very sodium chloridy!”

      source
      • FooBarrington@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Image

        source
        • -> View More Comments
    • Hamartiogonic@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Similarly large volumes of water should be given in kl, Ml, Gl etc. instead of m^3. Which one is bigger 2500000 m^3 or 790000 m^3? Count the zeros if you want and then tell me if using appropriate prefixes would have made it easier to tell the difference.

      source
      • 13esq@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        If you see an IBC of water, do you see 1m³ or a thousand individual liters?

        There’s nothing wrong with describing things the way that you experience them.

        source
        • -> View More Comments
      • hedgehog@ttrpg.network ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        If you used scientific notation or commas (or periods, depending on region) to format those numbers for human consumption, that would also make it easier.

        source
    • 13esq@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      There is a good reason.

      People can picture one ton in their heads, no one can picture one million grams.

      You can imagine a ton bag of sand, you can’t imagine one million individual grains of sand that weigh one gram each.

      The term “megagram” does make perfect sense, but it doesn’t fit well with the way the people experience the universe around them.

      source
      • Shialac@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        These two words mean the same thing, why would you be able ti picture one thing but not the other?

        source
        • -> View More Comments
  • argenfarg@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    I brought a shit ton of tacos. Or I have supplied us with a faecal megagram of tacos. You be the judge.

    source
    • FlyingSquid@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      An imperial shit ton or a metric shit ton?

      source
  • Harpsist@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Apparently megagram is the correct term! Someone else was just posting about another metric question and they posted some historical reasons for why megagram never took off.

    That car weighs in at 6 megagrams.

    Yes.

    source
  • marcos@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    I’m all for megagram. If nothing, it will stop the senseless people that insists on using imperial unities from confusing everybody.

    source
    • CrayonRosary@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      WE MUST HAVE IMPERIAL UNITY!

      source
  • FuglyDuck@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Mega pints are more fun.

    source
    • bernieecclestoned@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      The fuck ton being the oldest example

      source
    • GreatAlbatross@feddit.uk ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Next time I’m at a pub that does megapints, I’ll ask how they managed to squeeze 10^6 pints in a 2 pint glass.

      source
      • FuglyDuck@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Beerspace. It’s like pocket space, but for beer.

        source
  • jbrains@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    More common terms in any language tend to be shorter or at least less standard/more irregular.

    source
  • skillissuer@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    i do see it in publications sometimes

    source
  • SocialMediaRefugee@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    A really big grandmother

    source
  • SkinnyTimmy@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Also, same issue as with MB and mb, you might confuse megagram with milligram

    source
    • Synthead@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      And you might confuse MB, megabytes, with MiB, mebibytes. MB s typically used to measure storage, and MiB typically used to measure data. There’s 1000 bytes in a kilobyte, and 1024 bytes in a kibibyte.

      source
      • stingpie@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        I still use mb and kb as 1024 instead of 1000, because I prefer to not have units switched around from under me. 2^16 will always address 64kb, not 65.

        source
        • -> View More Comments
    • Deuces@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Mega mean 1024 of something right?

      source
      • ComradeKhoumrag@infosec.pub ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Mega is a million. Kilo is a thousand. 1024 in kilobytes comes from powers of 2 which are more natural in addressing computer memory

        source
  • 13esq@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Have you ever bought a ton of anything?

    Did you put it on the scales and make sure that it was exactly one million grams or go, “yh, that looks like it’s about a ton”.?

    That’s why the term ton is popular, the term megagram only really makes sense when you need your “ton” to be precisely one million grams.

    source
    • Jam0758@szmer.info ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      I do not think this is a good take. I buy kilograms of sugar, wheat, I measure my body weight in kilograms and I do not need these measurements to be accurate to one thousandths.

      And yeah, I have bought a ton of something, coal.

      It’s a ton (or metric tonne, fine) because people are just used to it, I wouldn’t have a problem if everybody started using megagrams, but most people wouldn’t even know what it means, especially elderly or people raised with SI but not “getting” SI (“centigrams? do you mean centimeters?”).

      It’s just a well known alias, nothing else.

      source
    • bstix@feddit.dk ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Honestly I don’t know what a ton looks like. I’ve bought stuff like gravel and even the guy selling it had no idea. I asked for half a ton which is the legal limit on my trailer and because the skid-loader didn’t have a scale in the grapple he said “I’m just gonna eyeball it”. Then on the scale where they do the payment it showed 2 ton, so I had to manually shovel 1.5 ton of gravel off.

      Sure I can visualise a ton of water because it’s such a nice unit, but everything else makes no sense. Cubic metres is a much better measurement to visualise.

      source
    • rufus@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Beg to differ. That’s kind of an imperial measurement system way of thinking about units.

      source
    • marcos@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      My local water services sells it by the ton.

      source
    • XTL@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      No. Tolerance is tolerance no matter what the unit is. There is implied tolerance but that’s also the same for “one A” and “one B” no matter what A and B are.

      source
      • 13esq@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        If you bought a ton of coal and the tolerance was ±5Kg who’s scales are you using when it gets delivered to your house?

        Or are you looking at size of the bag and thinking, yep, looks like a ton.

        source
  • superkret@feddit.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Why do we measure fuel consumption in l/100km and not in μm²?

    source
  • theKalash@feddit.ch ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    The official unit name is megagram. Ton ist just used colloquially.

    source
  • UntouchedWagons@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    I’ve never heard of gigameter or gigalitre

    source
  • Deestan@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Because “ton” was an established amount in trade and shipping (though with significant local variations), that was later adjusted to fit into the metric system and standardized. Hence why people specify “metric ton”. There was simply no need for people to change their terminology when they already had good monosyllable.

    Similar to “mile” which in metric countries were brought into the standard and defined to be 10,000 meters. While these days kilometers are almost always used for long distance in all official uses, people’s habits are still to talk about “miles” when describing how far something is to travel. E.g. “I live roughly 2 miles from town” flows better than “I live 22 kilometers from town”.

    source
    • Delphia@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      You’re half right. There is no “metric mile” at least not officially.

      But the reason ton/tonne worked in both is that a metric ton is 1000kg and an imperial tonne works out at 1016kg which is close enough for damn near everyone who weighs shit by the ton/tonne.

      But then the Americans and Canadians had to create a stupid hybrid and define the “ton” as 2000lbs (About 907kg)

      source
      • Deestan@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Thanks for the extra information. But we do have metric “miles” in metric countries. Norwegian spelling, for example, is “mil”. Icelandic is “mìla” Etymology is from the imperial mile, again from latin.

        Example: snl.no/mil

        source
    • skullgiver@popplesburger.hilciferous.nl ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Similarly, things like (local translations of) ounces and pounds were also metric-ised.

      A Dutch pound (“pond”) used to weigh anywhere from 433 to 494 grams (every town/region had their own measurements). It was standardised to 509 grams for convenience.

      The Dutch ounce used to be 1/16th of a pound (about 30 grams) but now refers to 100 grams.

      I’m a little surprised to see the Nordic mile get rounded up to 10km, but I guess it’s not unlike the Dutch ounce, being rounded up to a power of ten for convenience.

      source
  • scarabic@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Personally I think it’s irritating to name units with millions and billions in the names.

    Imagine everything was built up from microns and we had to say “mega micron” for milimeter. And centi-mega-micron for centimeter and mega-mega-micron for meters. It gets silly and your unit names become formulas instead of highly memorable and intuitive concepts.

    Once per order of magnitude you should just re-root the units with more unique names. Keep the conversions metric and clean but give “ton” and “gram” their own names because they live in different order of magnitude scales.

    source
  • veroxii@aussie.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    There are about a million reasons.

    source
  • roawre@feddit.ch ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Why a feet and not a fivgers ?

    source
  • etuomaala@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    If you think about it, tonne is actually a better base unit than grams, because it aligns better with the cubic metre (1m^3 = (approx.) 1 tonne of water.

    So really, I would ask why kilograms and milligrams, and not millitonnes and microtonnes?

    I can picture it now. I weigh 70 millitonnes.

    source