Why is it ok to replace -ed at the end of a word with -t in some cases? For example, why are "vexed" and "vext" both acceptable, but "thrilled" and "thrilt" aren't?

Submitted ⁨⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨58008@lemmy.world⁩ to ⁨[deleted]⁩

Often when I’m playing Scrabble, I’m testing every normally -ed word with the -t variant to see if I can make it fit, but only a small percentage of them gets accepted or is in the dictionary. Some seem self-explanatory, but others seem arbitrary, and feel like hangovers from an old mediaeval version of the language.

An example of a self-explanatory variation would be “burned” and “burnt”. One is the past particle of the verb to burn, the other is a description of the quality of having been burned. Although interchangeable, one generally feels more appropriate than the other in specific circumstances. I’m ok with that particular t/ed switcheroo. It’s stuff like the following that I’m confused about:

Vexed/Vext
Fixed/Fixt
Flocked/Flockt
Picked/Pickt
Skinned/Skint (borderline case, “skint” has another meaning)

Those are all in the dictionary, but these aren’t:

Backed/Backt
Racked/Rackt
Packed/Packt
Fucked/Fuckt

I can’t for the life of me figure out the rule, if such a rule even exists.

Cheers!

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Comments

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Adderbox76@lemmy.ca ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
They’re not acceptable. In fact I can’t think of a single one except burnt that is still actively kicking around.

Who told you it was acceptable, if you don’t mind me asking. And if it was your english teacher, please ask them how they managed to get here from all the way back in Shakespeare’s time.

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- MrsDoyle@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  I sleeped on it and I decided you’re wrong.
  
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FelixCress@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Using words like “fixt” or “vext” is completely fuckt

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Forester@pawb.social ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Vext is present tense whereas vexed is supposed to be used in the past tense. I’m not an English major though, so 50/50 on whether that’s actually correct or not but that’s how I learned it.

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Boddhisatva@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Those ending in a ‘-t’ are archaic forms left over from Middle English.

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- Buddahriffic@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Mostly loadwords from dwarvish.
  
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jbrains@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Scrabble is not a language game, but instead a spatial and arithmetic game using arbitrary strings of letters. Don’t look to it as a reflexion of the state of English as she is spoke.

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- corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  
  reflexion
  
  I see what you did there.
  
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tetris11@lemmy.ml ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
All of the ‘t’ examples in the dictionary come as a genuine shock to me

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- stinerman@midwest.social ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Could be a British/American English thing. We (Americans) say “learned”, they will often say “learnt.”
  
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  - IcyToes@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Nope. Brit here. All those examples were wrong. Yours is valid though.
    
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hydroptic@sopuli.xyz ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

feel like hangovers from an old mediaeval version of the language.

This is pure conjecture on my part, but I think that might be the explanation.

Also like @Forester@pawb.social alluded to, English really isn’t one language, but more like 4(+) languages in a trench coat pretending to be one. Lots of weird shit that really doesn’t make much sense unless viewed from a perspective of language development & history

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JackGreenEarth@lemm.ee ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
I hadn’t heard of most of those examples besides burnt/burned, but I do know of learned/learnt, which hasn’t been mentioned.

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hera@feddit.uk ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Susie Dent mentioned on a radio 4 show that words that maintained the archaic -t ending are usually more commonly used words. Words that are used less lost their -t ending and gained a more generic -ed ending as people were not taught it and used the rule they knew. So words we have like slept, dreamt, smelt are regularly used words day to day.

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- Randelung@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Dreamed and smelled are clear, but… sleeped? sleped? Utter madness.
  
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  - hera@feddit.uk ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Same as wept
    
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FriendOfDeSoto@startrek.website ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Language isn’t logical in a mathematical sense. Every language develops its own logic over time as an unspoken consensus that only after the fact gets codified as orthography and grammar.

The big mother language to most languages in Europe, Protoindoeuropean, has its origins millennia ago somewhere in Ukraine. Linguists have pieced together what this language most likely sounded like. It’s a game of probabilities and good educated guesses but it’s fascinating. If you’re a nerd. One theory is that at the earliest time when this language was formed, most if not all verbs were what we would call today irregular, think know-knew-known or sing-sang-sung etc. Small language communities have no problem with insane and arbitrary grammar like that. You learn it with your mother’s milk so to speak. Very few outsiders have to deal with it. And life just goes on.

English is a true mix of stuff. The Germanic invadors after the Romans left had to deal with the native celts. They were themselves invaded by Vikings from Scandinavia and some 300 years later by Vikings that had become French. Both brought their own languages with them and influenced English. Both invasions caused situations where adults were put in a situation of having to learn another language. What kids soak up like sponges, grownups have a harder time with. So they take shortcuts in their speech. They didn’t struggle too much with sing-sang-sung because that’s a typical protoindoeuropean vowel change that exists just like that in many European languages to this day in versions of this particular verb. But some of the other verbs were just too hard to remember! Let’s just whack a -t or -d sound at the end and Bob’s you uncle. And that’s how English lost a lot of its irregular verbs. Over time this became -ed in most cases. But, as I said, we don’t follow a mathematical Boolean logic here. It allowed for hangers-on, regional varieties, and new formations of irregular forms. Burnt/burned hung on, fucked/fuckt did not. The reason is the flow of history.

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FreedomAdvocate@lemmy.net.au ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
The english language is a strange one. Not everything makes total sense. This is just one of those times.

If you really want to question your knowledge of the english language, play scrabble against someone who is very good at it and you’ll be constantly checking the dictionary saying “there’s no way that’s a real word” haha

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frenchfryenjoyer@lemmings.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Welcome to the English language, where the rules of consistency are out the window lol

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Drbreen@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Because things ending with a t like that looks like shit and I’m sure those who decided the spelling though the same.

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Kolanaki@pawb.social ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
I mean this is really dependent on the version of Scrabble you’re playing.

That seems like a unique thing for your particular version. Like it’s including internetisms/slang.

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