They already take 30% on each game. It’s huge, considering they didn’t spent a dime on these games. That means they will take most of the profit margin on a game, if any, while a studio has to pay for dozens or hundreds of employees, tons of hardware, workspaces, etc.
brucethemoose@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
These comments…
Some day, Steam is going to enshittify fast, eat game devs for breakfast, and people will ask how they could have possibly seen this coming.
Kind of like a certain online bookstore named after a river.
Yerbouti@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
vapeloki@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Do You have any idea what the hosting infrastructure, steam works, and traffic costs?
Also, valve is giving massive contributions to open source from those 30%
Serinus@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Do You have any idea what the hosting infrastructure, steam works, and traffic costs?
Yeah, not 30% of all PC games. It’s how they turn out absurd profit.
vapeloki@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Never said that. But what is better for the dev? Using those services or run their own?
And I am fine with Valve making absurd profits, after all, they have put at least 500.000.000 USD into open source (Around 100-200 external oss devs on payroll for projects like Mesa, SDL,…).
Will I leave steam and call valve out if they get toxic? Yes! Are they evil or the enemy right now? To the contrary.
architect@thelemmy.club 2 weeks ago
That absurd profit is really from that digital trinket store/gambling bs.
30% for a digital storefront? Cheap for what they provide. Y’all really need to understand how bad it is out here. Go look at what Amazon takes from authors. eBay takes 30% from me sometimes! That’s a real physical product i have to ship!
30% to valve for what they offer? Yes, absolutely a good fucking deal. They will market my game and make it look as best it can on their storefront. That is absolutely worth the cost.
Yerbouti@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
Valve is one of the most profitable company in the world.
itidings.com/…/valves-17-billion-revenue-projecti…
I mean, just look at this thread and see how much free propaganda they get from gamers. That’s a lot of free labour just to defend a billionaire that profits from gambling for kids.
vapeloki@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
What exactly is this the answer to?
Yes, they make a shit load of money. But assuming you want to distribute a game directly, how much of would that cost you, and let’s ignore the whole visibility shit for a second.
architect@thelemmy.club 2 weeks ago
Everyone in here is just choosing a different flavor of billionaire to get behind, though.
Epic is not a co-op, lol.
garretble@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
So, Apple and other companies that charge 30% to host apps: BAD
Steam changes 30% to host games: GOOD
I’m not saying this is your argument, necessarily, but it’s funny to hear that “30% is good actually!” in the tech space because the last few years it’s been “Apple and others who charge 30% are taking too much! All they do is host and manage the traffic for apps!”
And I’m not trying to say Apple is good or anything. It’s just funny.
catsarebadpeople@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
So you’re not really saying anything at all then. Got it
NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
They help market the game as well on their storefront.
They could just let you rot in obscurity.
carpelbridgesyndrome@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
There definitely is some amount of expenditure by valve. I don’t know if its 30% worth. For multiplayer games they provide a server/client DDOS protection and traffic optomization service though it is opt in by the developer through an api. The opther option for this tends to be a “contact sales” priced option from cloudflare. There is also some of proton’s development, some linux graphics driber work, and workshop support though I suspect hosting and content moderation expenditure there is fairly minimal.
ericwdhs@discuss.online 2 weeks ago
30% is the industry standard though, and Valve’s contribution of distribution and discovery infrastructure, its audience, and expanding hardware initiatives are not nothing. If you’re not pricing a game to give yourself a healthy margin within the 70% or your development model doesn’t make that viable, that’s really on you.
Fredthefishlord@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
Industry standard doesn’t mean reasonable. It’s renter class bullshit, profiting off of other’s labor. Pretending creating a distribution and discovery platform is seriously deserving of 30% of the value of the hard work of game devs is not reasonable.
ericwdhs@discuss.online 2 weeks ago
I never called it reasonable. I just don’t think it’s especially egregious. Honestly, I would price the value of Valve’s contribution (which is definitely not zero) at maybe 15% to 20%, but that’s just a gut feeling.
Yerbouti@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
I mean, Spotify’s model is the industry standard, and it still suck big time and doesn’t give a shit about artists.
Anyway if I’ve learn anything over the past 10 years, it’s that it would probably be easier to convince a room full of maga to vote for Hillary Clinton than the average gamer to admit that steam sucks. So keep kissing this billionaire’s ass because he really does care about you, and remember Ubisoft and Epic (12% cut) bad.
Rose@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
The “30% is the industry standard” claim is not even true anymore. Epic currently takes 0% to expand its catalog, though from what I remember, it estimated that it needs to take 7% or so to be profitable. Microsoft takes 12%. Itch allows to adjust. GOG’s fee varies from deal to deal. Ubisoft (and EA) no longer sell third-party games, so they’re out of scope here.
The only way I’ve seen people try to counter this is by referring to the mobile and console store fees, but going by the Epic v. Google lawsuit where the jury was asked to define the market and defined it as Android, there’s just no way that argument would hold water. Still, console manufacturers produce at a loss, so they need to make up for that. In the mobile market, Google is already changing its fee to be 20% or less.
ericwdhs@discuss.online 2 weeks ago
I’m not saying the standard doesn’t suck, just taking issue with the implication that anyone using it is uniquely bad to do so.
But yeah, you’re right that getting me to admit Steam (overall) sucks would be nigh impossible. I genuinely don’t believe it does, so there’s nothing to admit. Maybe you could convince me to lie about it though? Lol.
I do admit there’s a few places it sucks, the gambling stuff being the biggest, but their positives eclipse those for me. I also acknowledge I’m in a privileged position being able to enjoy Valve’s efforts in VR, Linux compatibility, etc. directly and that I might have different opinions if I was on the outside looking in. I imagine that’s not quite the admission you want though.
ClamDrinker@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Challenging biased views, half truths, or having your own opinions isn’t kissing some billionaire’s ass. I don’t want billionaire’s to exist. Gabe shouldn’t need to be a billionaire. But all of this is absofuckinglutely irrelevant to whether or not Steam is a good platform, unless Gabe was wielding Steam in a way that would promote a billionaire class, which he isn’t.
Serinus@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I’m not gonna say Steam sucks. It’s a nice organizational tool that enforces some standards.
I’d rather have a drm free game that’s 20% cheaper though. The devs can pocket the other 10%.
LodeMike@lemmy.today 2 weeks ago
Brick and mortar stores take 50% of revenue usually. The profit margin for the manufacturer applies after that
Yerbouti@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
You comparing a store with a digital storefront? Anyway enjoy the library you don’t own, at best it will die with you.
bitjunkie@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Those studios are paying Valve how much for tailored marketing throughout the game’s lifespan?
Honytawk@discuss.tchncs.de 2 weeks ago
30% of all revenue.
bitjunkie@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Precisely.
architect@thelemmy.club 2 weeks ago
They spend money on each game uploaded to their store. How could you seriously think they aren’t spending any money?
You’re more making an argument that games are too cheap now.
You don’t think valve has employees and hardware to maintain?
AeonFelis@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
So… what? Hate them in advance, so that if they ever turn evil we’d be prepared?
brucethemoose@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Be prepared.
Don’t hate, but don’t trust Valve. Treat your Steam library like you don’t own it, and it could be enshittified at any time, because you don’t, and it could.
In practice, prioritize DRM-free stores when convenient. Or better yet, 1st party game dev stores. Archive any games or saves you actually want to go back to, just in case.
ClamDrinker@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Exactly. And unlike many other companies there isn’t even any indication they would want to enshittify anyways. Why would they destroy the foundation of their platform? They have actual paying customers paying the bills, not some force-feed ad slop machine.
Honytawk@discuss.tchncs.de 2 weeks ago
What do you think will happen when Gabe dies?
Other people will take his place. And you can be sure there are some greedy fucks pining for his role.
Companies do not have to indicate when they are going to enshitify. It can and has happened over night.
ClamDrinker@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
You are right, when Gabe dies, that will be a huge point of uncertainty where people’s trust into Steam will need to be re-established to keep going as it currently is. But that’s a point aside.
Companies do not have to indicate when they are going to enshitify. It can and has happened over night.
It can happen, but it’s not the norm by far. Reputation is still to some companies their key indicator of profitability, and Steam is certainly one of those. By that logic you should at any time be expecting loot boxes instead of products in your supermarket tomorrow, but that’s kind of ridiculous because everyone would hop to a competitor immediately, assuming no foul play. As I mentioned in this comment, paying customers hold a firm grasp of the value of Steam. If the people stop coming to Steam, they companies do too, and Steam dies.
architect@thelemmy.club 2 weeks ago
Well this is just naive. Steam will die, too.
ClamDrinker@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Kinda presumptuous to call it naive when I never said Steam couldn’t ever die, nor do I believe so. I’m saying that unlike other platforms that enshittify, paying customers hold the final say for Steam. Paying customers are why companies come to Steam, paying customers will not spend money on Steam if they even get close to enshittifying. There is no multi billion dollar ad industry in between that pays the bills, that dictates the enshittification because it demands advertisements be shoved down people’s throats.
metakrakalaka@lemmychan.org 2 weeks ago
It really puts into perspective the importance of supporting free software. Even after Valve goes to shit, their contributions to the ecosystem will live on.
It’s why the average sheep can never see the value in free software; it keeps them dependent on corporations.
JustEnoughDucks@feddit.nl 2 weeks ago
Amazon was toxic from day one, anticompetitive, borderline illegal, definitely corrupt as hell. It is what Epic Games Store would have been if it had been long before steam lol. The amount of shit that they bankrupted into the ground with cheap Chinese copies off the backs of VC funds while making tons of loss and then removing their storefronts…
But as soon as GabeN dies, steam will become shit probably as the vultures close in.
ZoteTheMighty@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
Amazon was always publicly traded, so it was always going to get worse. Steam is privately owned by Gabe, and is therefore more resistant to enshittification. Unless Gabe sells or dies, Steam’s pretty safe.
Maggoty@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I got bad news for you. Gabe is human and barring a miracle in medical science; he will die. He’s 63, the tables on Age Cohort death aren’t kind after 60. (They’re brutal after 70) Only 1/3rd of men reach 80.
This is something we need to be thinking about now. It could easily 5-10 years to get competitors working.
BurgerBaron@piefed.social 2 weeks ago
Gabe still owns Valve not shareholders. It’s after he dies that gets me worried.
WhiskyTangoFoxtrot@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Amazon enshittified with their one-click-shopping patent, though. They were never good.
architect@thelemmy.club 2 weeks ago
That’s a fucking patent?!
Maggoty@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Yup. The US Patent office isn’t very good at it’s job.
architect@thelemmy.club 2 weeks ago
That online bookstore literally started this rule of not being allowed to sell your products cheaper offsite and they will be god damned if gamers think they can fix that through Steam.
They pay the fucking president off.
They are literally the problem yall are complaining about in this thread! Fix that and you fix steam!
vapeloki@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Hearing those arguments for how many years now? Right …
The day Gabe is bo longer there things may get ugly, may.
But, Valve is not publicly traded, or has to cater to shareholders in any way. That is the reason they are still who they are.
grrgyle@slrpnk.net 2 weeks ago
They run a good service platform and aren’t as greedy as they could be, but they’re still not safe.
Use them, but no fangirling. They’re a business.
Crozekiel@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
I’d be completely in agreement of what you are saying if it wasn’t for the fact that there are so many people acting like Steam is the worst platform in existence every time they get brought up. People are awfully quick to suck Tim Sweeney off for only charging 12% and fill up the comments with whatever the opposite of “fangirling” is.
brucethemoose@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Yeah, that’s going too far, but I understand the reaction to fanning over Valve.
There are a bazillion examples of why you should use, not trust, big businesses over centuries. They are transactions, not people. And if people look at the world in 2026 and somehow don’t see that, I honestly don’t know what to tell them.
grrgyle@slrpnk.net 2 weeks ago
Just ignore those people and keep the shilling to a min, that’s all I’m saying. No they’re not the worst thing ever, they’re actually pretty good in a lot of ways, but they are a business and they do have a bit of a monopoly going on.
architect@thelemmy.club 2 weeks ago
They get a free game and they turn into $2 hookers over it man. It’s insane.