The US is mad about them because its police force is uneducated, untrained and murderous. Whatever flaws the UK’s police have, it’s not nearly as bad, and having surveillance (in public) is not likely to result in you or your dog getting shot for no reason.
The UK has its own network of Flock-style AI cameras. So where’s the outrage?
Submitted 1 day ago by okwithmydecay@leminal.space to unitedkingdom@feddit.uk
https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/stories/2026-11-06/flock-cameras-us-anpr-surveillance-uk
Comments
FishFace@piefed.social 23 hours ago
pieberry@lemmy.today 17 hours ago
The US is (also) mad about them because it’s a violation of the 4th amendment of our constitution against unreasonable search.
Tweak@feddit.uk 16 hours ago
And because US law enforcement have been using the private sector to bypass the need for a warrant.
FishFace@piefed.social 17 hours ago
I don’t really know the legal arguments that make surveillance of public places into searches, but let’s assume they exist and are valid… I still don’t think people would be that mad about it if you thought you could trust your police to use the information half-way responsibly.
prettybunnys@piefed.social 20 hours ago
ding ding ding
Humans generally don’t mind guardrails and the like when they trust the people enacting them.
We’ve never really trusted the PO-lice in the USA, some have enthusiastically but many have never
WalleyeWarrior@midwest.social 19 hours ago
The state song of Tennessee has a line about murdering two federal agents searching for a moonshine operation. Americans only like cops if they are brutalizing minorities or striking workers.
tangentism@beehaw.org 15 hours ago
Whatever flaws the UK’s police have, it’s not nearly as bad
The only major difference between the US and UK police is the numbers that are armed.
UK police are still full of the corrupt, racists, misogynists, rapists, child abusers and wife beaters.
FishFace@piefed.social 15 hours ago
The entire basis of policing in the two countries is different. This is reflected in their attitude and use of force, which is relevant when evaluating any new police power or tool.
Tweak@feddit.uk 17 hours ago
The difference is ANPR is that Flock is a private business, collecting data and stalking people across the US for commercial purposes, which sold this data to law enforcement - meanwhile law enforcement were using the private sector to bypass the checks and balances of court warrants.
In the UK, ANPR is an official tool, not private. Police need to get authorisation to use it, and it is not used for commercial purposes.
It’s still wank, but it’s not quite as wank.
SpatchyIsOnline@lemmy.world 16 hours ago
It’s not used for commercial purposes
Maybe not in that way, but private car parks use ANPR all the time to fine you £70 for staying 1 minute over your allotted time
Tweet@feddit.uk 15 hours ago
It’s the same technology, but it’s not the same network of cameras, is it? I’d assumed ParkingEye and the like would only have access to their own cameras that they had been contracted to set up by private land owners of car parks.
Tweak@feddit.uk 15 hours ago
I was thinking on this when I wrote my comment above, and I’m not quite sure.
Either there’s a muddying of terms, where you have ANPR as a technology (which anyone could implement), and the police have their own network of ANPR cameras.
Or private businesses submit their data to an ANPR database that the police maintain.Regardless, there’s not one big private network of ANPR cameras that the government have permitted to be installed on public land.
echodot@feddit.uk 20 hours ago
I suppose it’s because there hasn’t been any stories about the police abusing their powers and following their exes around. I’m sure it happens there’s just not been any stories about it.
Other one thing I will say is this, I used to actually watch the road traffic cameras so we could report in accidents and breakdowns on the motorways and trust me no one can track you using those cameras you could barely tell call of the car was make and model you had no chance. You wouldn’t have thought they would still make cameras with the resolution of 720i, but apparently they still do.
dudeface@lemmy.world 23 hours ago
Policing by consent is what is different, in America police are often a private force for those in power
Tweak@feddit.uk 16 hours ago
More specifically, Flock is a private company. Because it’s private and commercial, police can just purchase access and don’t need a warrant.
ANPR in the UK is run by police. Using it falls under the same rules as any other police investigation.
hashferret@lemmy.world 20 hours ago
How exactly would one withdraw their consent?
dudeface@lemmy.world 18 hours ago
If society decides they don’t want the police I am sure they would disband
Blow_Me@midwest.social 19 hours ago
Probably with guerilla tactics.
rmuk@feddit.uk 15 hours ago
We don’t have “Flock-style” cameras at all. We have a statutory system with a strictly defined remit that was subject to years of argument, scrutiny and rewrites before it was turned on, not an invasive profit factory run by ruthless, messianic psychopaths. Secondly, our cops are all educated to degree level, they’re not just a bunch of otherwise futureless thugs who sit a three-week impossible-to-fail class and are given a gun. Neither is perfect, far from it, but both are orders of magnitude better than what you have the Land Of The Free™.
I know enough about the ANPR systems on public roads that the UK police have access to. Firstly, it’s centrally managed through the PNC and every single query is logged: each query has to me made by an authorised officer who signs in with a federated identity and has to make the query in the context of an investigation - any query made without that immediately launches to an internal investigation and instant no-questions-asked dismissal is on the cards for anyone who makes a query without official justification. You know how American cops can shoot a protester and go back to full work after a two-week fully-paid break? Last month a cop in the UK was fired and blocked from ever working in the police, as a security guard or even as a doorman for the rest of his life without any possibility of appeal. He stole a reusable carrier bag from a supermarket.
Also, different people in different organisations have different levels of access. The DVLA can see if a particular license plate has been logged anywhere in a given month to see if an untaxed car is in use, for example, but they can’t see anything else. A traffic cop can see if a car has insurance, tax and an MOT certificate, but not the owner’s name or address. The biggest loophole at the moment is private car park owners who can ask the DVLA for the details of the owner of a car to issue parking fines, but that’s being clamped down on and, regardless, is nothing to do with public cameras.
5in1k@lemmy.zip 22 hours ago
The UK has surrendered their rights to a nanny state. They can’t even own pointy knives.
echodot@feddit.uk 19 hours ago
Oh no I’m not allowed a murderous weapon, what a restrictive country I live in I don’t know how I cope. The day I wasn’t able to randomly kill someone who cut me off in traffic. What an utterly appalling infringement on my freedoms.
5in1k@lemmy.zip 18 hours ago
How do you stab another driver from a car?
Digestive_Biscuit@feddit.uk 18 hours ago
That person is wrong anyway. We can carry a knife but there are restrictions. Some knifes are completely banned though, zombies, etc.
I carry a 3" non-locking knife with me often. Totally legal.
OfCourseNot@fedia.io 23 hours ago
Americans idolise Europe and wouldn't stop bitching about how great it is here and how easy we have it. But then they'll go 'No kings!, no government ID!, no mass surveillance!, no face scanning and fingerprinting everyone without them committing a crime!...', like, do you lot want Europe style 'democracy' or not?
idiomaddict@lemmy.world 22 hours ago
I’m an American living in Germany, and I’ve got warring feelings about how a country should be. That’s pretty normal for immigrants (I also teach integration classes and this comes up a lot). I prefer some things from the USA, and some things from Germany. On the whole, I prefer Germany, and while I’m very grateful and glad to be able to live here, it’s not a completely frictionless cultural transition.
For example, I really like that unions and guilds are respected and protected here and I love that people care for the environment more here, but I also enjoy changing my own oil (I don’t dump or spill it outside, nor do I dispose of it inappropriately- to answer the first question Germans always have). These are in opposition to each other, because even if I’m meticulous, a general population isn’t, and if most people changed their own oil, there would certainly be more small scale contamination events, and it would likely have an impact on the mechanics industry. If I have to choose between the environment and unions or changing my own oil, I choose the former, 100%. But it’s always going to chafe a little to pay someone else >50€ for an oil change.
yetAnotherUser@discuss.tchncs.de 17 hours ago
I’m 99% sure you’re allowed to change your oil at home, even in Germany.
There are restrictions about washing your car though.
FishFace@piefed.social 20 hours ago
Well said. I like your example, too.
echodot@feddit.uk 19 hours ago
Well there’s also the safety issue that the US actually does have, that a lot of people don’t perform basic maintenance on their vehicles and drive around in death traps, with bald tyres, rusted axles, and wheels that are the bell attached to the vehicle. It would be fine if they only killed themselves, but they often take a few other people along with them.
echodot@feddit.uk 19 hours ago
I think flock is a pretty egregious example though. The corrupt us police were using it for personal reasons most of which were nefarious.
I’m not sure if Americans can really articulate this because they’re kind of used to their police being the enemy, but I think the larger issue isn’t so much the cameras themselves, it’s mass surveillance by an organization that is barely one step above criminals.
Tweak@feddit.uk 16 hours ago
Law enforcement in the US extensively use the private sector to bypass the courts and get around having to get a warrant.
dudeface@lemmy.world 23 hours ago
Different people can have different opinions in America I think
Jake_Farm@sopuli.xyz 1 day ago
Honestly, they probably have better security. And there is probably less transparency about about usage.
Tylerdurdon@lemmy.world 22 hours ago
Let the crumpets fly, rosbif!
robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 20 hours ago
there was some 20 years ago. not enough apparently, and not enough kids with slingshots.
Egonallanon@feddit.uk 1 day ago
The UK has been saturated with CCTV cameras of all sorts for decades so the frog has been thoroughly boiled on public opinion on them.
Impleader@lemmy.world 17 hours ago
Even as an American, I’m well aware of the history around surveillance in Britain. V for Vendetta was largely a commentary on it, Radiohead has made some references to government/corporate oversight in their albums, etc.
toohotforsoup@lemmy.world 16 hours ago
ALPR cameras were invented in the UK in the 80s and as a country they stopped caring about privacy around that time as well.