Please Consider Defederating from rammy.site

Submitted ⁨⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨PowerfulTurtle@rammy.site⁩ to ⁨support@lemmy.world⁩

Dear Admins of the Lemmy.world instance I am asking that you please consider defederating from the rammy.site instance as soon as possible as the admin is no where to be found and it has been taken over by right wing posters posting hateful messages. There are also other people posting large amounts of spam and creating empty communities. What was once a small hobby run general purpose instance has been turned over and made into a festering right wing hate filled breeding ground by the people from exploding-heads. The only recoarse left it seems is to defederate to prevent them from spreading hate to other instances.

PS. I already sent this message to multiple admins here, sorry about that I just felt it was urgent to make sure the message was sent before these people cause more damage.

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Comments

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JoelJ@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
I was skeptical of this claim so I went and had a look. Here’s some of the posts I saw: “Polar Ice Sheets are thicker than ever despite predictions that the Arctic and Antarctic would be ‘Ice free’” “Leftist Parents “Flee” Florida Because Of New Laws Blocking Child Mutilation” “It’s strange how you never see pedophiles, im sorry, drag queens reading to old people instead of kids”

So yeah some pretty insane takes there

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- HellAwaits@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  
  “It’s strange how you never see pedophiles, im sorry, drag queens reading to old people instead of kids”
  
  The same old people’s generation that had military men dressing and dancing in drag in front of other military men and said nothing? It’s like these right-wing numbnuts don’t understand anything about the world at all.
  
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  - DragonTypeWyvern@literature.cafe ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    There are, btw, many drag queens who do in fact entertain the elderly. My grandmother’s nursing home had one that came every Friday and was the best piano player I’ve ever seen in person.
    
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  - Blubber28@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    Not to mention actual soldiers participating too!
    
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  - Blamemeta@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    Its different when its kids.
    
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  - imapuppetlookaway@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    As in South Pacific (my favorite musical) for example. (I’m not gay, i just like musicals … and i’m not in drag right now neither …)
    
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- echodot@feddit.uk ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  I like the idea that Florida has introduced a progressive law. I think that’s the most unrealistic claim of all of.
  
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- soviettaters@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Seems like pretty average takes to me. Yeah, the polar ice sheets thing is climate change denier garbage but nothing you won’t hear when talking to certain people.
  
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hal_5700X@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
They need to give us (the users) the ability to block instances. So people will stop posting this stuff all the time and we the people will have the power.

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- GONADS125@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  That feature definitely needs to be added soon…
  
  However, instances that spread hate and propoganda should be defederated from regardless if people can block the instance individually. They should not be given an audience to radicalize.
  
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  - 0XiDE@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    Ideas should be fought with ideas, not censorship
    
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  - PowerfulTurtle@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    I agree with both of these points, users definitely need the ability to block instances that they don’t want to see
    
    Instances which violate your home instance’s rules or are a threat to the instance should be defederated to protect the users on that instance and maintain a healthy community.
    
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- fedev@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  This feature is available in Connect for Lemmy.
  
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  - august_senpai@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    That’s nice but only a frontend app filter. It should be platform independent and linked to the account, like blocked communities.
    
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  - Cr4yfish@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    It also works in Nemmy.
    
    Disclosure that I’m the main Nemmy dev :)
    
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  - FinalRemix@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    It was my experience that feature was janky and didn’t actually work on Connect.
    
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- whimsical_spleen@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  There is an open issue at github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy/issues/2397 but I don’t know if anyone is working on it.
  
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- PowerfulTurtle@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  
  EDIT Also I love how people never have proof (links or screenshots) to prove you’re not lying.
  
  “That’s awful, where can I find it” is what that sounds like.
  
  I know you didn’t intend it that way but it does kind of sound that way. Also if you do want to see it or you think I’m lying you can just go to rammy.site and see for yourself, it’s not hard to find at all. I’m not going to post links to the posts though, that feels very much like promoting and/or endorsing them and I don’t want to cater to people who want to look at awful stuff either as doom scrolling or because they’re Nazis themselves, if I’m going to send links to anyone it would be the Admins of lemmy.world, I didn’t feel the need though because like I said you can just go look there at the main page of the site.
  
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zombie_kong@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Do it.

Enough with tolerating that bullshit.

Let them spew their hate, just make sure it’s contained.

Preferably where nobody can see or hear them.

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BingoBangoBongo@midwest.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Wow I really regret going there to see if it’s that bad. It’s worse than I could have anticipated. Worse than r/theDonald ever got

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Ab_intra@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Thanks making a post about this!

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eros@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
You actually don’t need to campaign to defederate every instance that offends you. Lemmy provides the ability to report posts and block posts, users, and instances. I get that there are a lot of shitheads, assholes, and idiots on the Internet… Defederating might be throwing the baby out with the bathwater in many cases. Hell, if you listened to everyone shouting about the assholes you shouldn’t support no one would be on Lemmy at all. Also, small I hobby instances are run by people with lives. Perhaps the admin will have time in the near future to clean up what’s been reported. Or maybe it really is abandoned. We just don’t know.

When someone starts campaigning to defederate an instance it immediately starts my senses tingling because I think I’m getting a version of the story… and it’s doubtful I’ll hear the other side. It offends the same part of as people complaining about downvotes did on Reddit. Take advice from a cartoon dog. “It’s not the done thing.” Or it shouldn’t be, at least.

Had this post just been letting people know what you observed about the instance I would be more moved to investigate and perhaps report posts and block the instance. I might still if I see hateful speech in All… but the implication that their hate will fester, breed, and spread if they aren’t immediately defederated is using the same tactics that right wing populists are… by dehumanizing people and playing on other people’s fear. It is just as wrong for you as it is for them to do it.

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- fkn@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  It giving astounds me that people literally don’t get his federation works. The whole giving point of federation is that we can defederate from instances that have garbage in them.
  
  This isn’t censorship.
  
  People are free to go be human garbage in their own instance, and I am glad that we can throw out the trash.
  
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- PowerfulTurtle@rammy.site ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Defederation is not censorship. It is refusing to listen to or platform things that you don’t agree with i.e. bigots or nazis. Lemmy.world has defederated exploding heads so it stands to reason that they wouldn’t want to listen to the same assholes spewing the same crap on rammy.site
  
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  - MrSpArkle@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    Dude, defederation is a form of censorship, and there’s nothing wrong with censoring false and hateful views.
    
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- mean_bean279@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  They’re allowed to freely say whatever they want on their instance, but we don’t have to listen. Y’all view defederation like I’m fucking stabbing Caesar in the back again.
  
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- RecursiveParadox@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  You’ve gotten downvoted, and you’ll probably get some more downvotes. But you you took the time to write a thoughtful post, and you made a good point.
  
  But ultimately I feel your point is wrong. Defederating from such an instance isn’t the equivalent of dehumanizing people you disagree with. Rather, it’s limiting the (potential) scope of harm people with bad intentions can cause.
  
  I get you’d like to see “both sides” or have a fuller picture, but there is enough evidence already that there really isn’t any possible “good” reason for their speech, and we should do what we can to limit its reach.
  
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  - rist097@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    What evidence? Who is them?
    
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- dublet@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Karl Popper entered the chat.
  
  Less well known [than other paradoxes] is the paradox of tolerance: Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them.—In this formulation, I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be most unwise. But we should claim the right to suppress them if necessary even by force; for it may easily turn out that they are not prepared to meet us on the level of rational argument, but begin by denouncing all argument; they may forbid their followers to listen to rational argument, because it is deceptive, and teach them to answer arguments by the use of their fists or pistols. We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant.
  
  en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
  
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  - CapraObscura@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    This is and always has been semantic bullshit.
    
    There is no fucking paradox of intolerance.
    
    Because you do not “tolerate” the violence that intolerance leads to, you ALLOW it.
    
    Shooting a fucking Nazi in the face isn’t intolerance. It’s basic preventative maintenance for democracy.
    
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  - CorruptBuddha@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    Personally I’m more concerned about the Spiral of Silence.
    
    The spiral of silence theory, proposed by German political scientist Elisabeth Noelle-Neumann in the 1970s, explains how public opinion is formed and how individuals may withhold expressing their views if they perceive them to be in the minority. This theory is often applied to political and social contexts, including the rise of ideologies like fascism.
    
    In the context of fascism or any other controversial ideology, the spiral of silence suggests that when people believe their opinions are not widely supported, they tend to remain silent and refrain from expressing their views publicly. This silence, in turn, can create an illusion that the majority supports the prevailing ideology, even if it might not be the case. As a result, individuals who disagree with the ideology might feel isolated and discouraged from speaking out, contributing to the seeming growth and acceptance of the ideology.
    
    I don’t think people tolerate intolerance so much as they’re scared to speak out.
    
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- JoelJ@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  It’s always refreshing to read an intelligent and well thought out response. The world needs more nuance!
  
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  - CapraObscura@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    You mean “a response I agree with.”
    
    And by “nuance” you mean “PEOPLE THAT USE THE N WORD REGULARLY!”
    
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- rist097@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Amin!
  
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- hal_5700X@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  People can block users and communities. We have the tools, so use them.
  
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seawoowaes@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
lemmy.world

preemptively defederates from hexbear

lemmy.world

silent on rammy.side blocking

🤔

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- antik@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  This account is carcosa the admin from hexbear. Stop maki g alts to troll.
  
  As if we needed more proof
  
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- GONADS125@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Rammy.site does not load for me when I try to view it from lemmy.world, but it does load if I search rammy.site on a browser.
  
  You may not be giving the lemmy.world admins enough time to respond to the situation. Guess we’ll see.
  
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  - seawoowaes@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    you can check lemmy.world/instances it still isn’t
    
    it is not on the blocked instance list, and this post is 8 hours old. The admins are aware of the instance and aware that it shares the same users as exploding-heads. Now compare this even to the “preemptive defederation” from hexbear for “breaking code of conduct and organizing brigades” the now locked hexbear post had no proof of code of conduct breaking content nor proof of hexbear organizing a brigade whereas rammy.site/post/326086 has clear code of conduct violations and active call to brigade.
    
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EyesEyesBaby@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
[deleted]
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- southsamurai@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  If they stayed in their own communities and instances, it would be fine to just block them ad hoc.
  
  But they don’t. They go to communities on other instances and make posts, and stir shit in comments.
  
  It’s a coordinated thing, they’re actively seeking to fuck with everyone else. They aren’t even hiding it, you can go to exploding heads and see the shit.
  
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  - Name021@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    If y’all wanna recreate reddit 2.0 then sure go ahead, censor every word that makes you slightly uncomfortable. Nazis were a huge fan of censorship IIRC
    
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  - EyesEyesBaby@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    [deleted]
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  - 0XiDE@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    Maybe there should be a personal option to block all users from a particular instance, so when you scroll past a comment from those users is just says “[user blocked by filter]”.
    
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- PowerfulTurtle@rammy.site ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Lemmy.world defederated EH a while back and now the same people from EH are posting wild on rammy.site, seems like a pretty cut and dry argument for defederation to me, if the admin were here and cleaning these posts and communities up that would be different but he’s not and they’re still here so best to treat is the same as EH because for all intents and purposes it is the same as EH.
  
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- EhList@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Can individual users block an entire instance?
  
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- REdOG@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Real smart huh did you ever even consider the fate of all those hammers? what would moderators even use them on?
  
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GONADS125@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Well, I’m late to the party, but it seems like rammy.site is failing to load for me.

If it’s as bad as it sounds from the quotes I read, then it should definitely be defederated from. Any instance peddling hate and/or propoganda needs to be defederated immediately. They need to be denied audiences.

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- hal_5700X@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  World is still federated with rammy. lemmy.world/instances
  
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  - GONADS125@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    You’re right. Someone linked a screenshot of the federation list.
    
    I still forget a lot of the features available on lemmy…
    
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  - LogarithmicCamel@feddit.uk ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    Not anymore.
    
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whoisearth@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
I am a proud member of lemmy.ca (and lemmy.world) and let me tell you I have no idea what rammy.site is not the other one that was defederared from.

What I will tell you, as a left leaning person, is nothing of value is gained from crying wolf every time a person or people disagree with your beliefs even, and let me be perfectly clear even if your beliefs are the better ones.

Op. Step away from the keyboard and from Lemmy and get some fresh air.

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- CapraObscura@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  “I’m left leaning but I’m totally fine with bigoted rhetoric being allowed around me.”
  
  In other words you’re a right-leaning centrist.
  
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  - Skelectrician@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    No, he values free speech even if he doesn’t agree with what is spoken.
    
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  - Chunk@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    This is so reductionist it’s absurd.
    
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- cyborganism@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  I think we can trust OP here.
  
  I went to take a look and it was pretty terrible. Blatant racism, sexism, homophobia and far right extremist propaganda.
  
  It looks like a concentration of posts from /b/ on 4chan without the child porn.
  
  We shouldn’t tolerate intolerance. I think it should be defederated.
  
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  - whoisearth@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    Not disagreeing but OP and their vocal counterparts are clearly unhinged. Like does anyone else not see them behaving no different than what they’re purporting to defederate from? I mean I was not calling anyone names. I was trying to take a level headed middle of the road approach and very clearly OP needs to step away from the keyboard because they are waaaay too wound up over this.
    
    For me, this other Lemmy instance like you said probably needs to go but I’d argue the same thing about OP. They’re opposite ends of a spectrum and equally unhealthy.
    
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- PowerfulTurtle@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  You clearly don’t understand this situation at all if you think that this is about beliefs or that I’m a liar. Either that or you actually agree with those people over there (if so why don’t you go join them then, nazis love to get new recruits).
  
  The reason I made this post and many others on other instances is because these people on rammy are posting incredibly hostile transphobic content which is dangerous because it both causes emotional harm to people, but also can indirectly lead to physical harm (there is a proven link between transphobic propaganda and acts of violence towards people who are trans, look trans, “act trans”, etc.). So this is not something to be taken lightly by any means.
  
  Now the problem ultimately is solved because lemmy.world, lemmy.ca, and a few others have already defederated rammy.site for the issues I mentioned here and in my post. However it was important that I made this post to spread awareness of the issue so that action could be taken in a timely manner.
  
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  - whoisearth@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    I get what you are saying but you have to understand where we are. Yes, hate can propagate online. Yes it’s important to fight that.
    
    I am a firm believer that isolating anyone in a bubble regardless of how good the intentions are is not a good thing.
    
    You fight ignorance with knowledge. You fight hate with love.
    
    If you’re in a room with a Nazi leaving the room does not make them stop being a Nazi nor does it prevent them from continuing their beliefs.
    
    That said, I completely understand the feeling of needing to defederate from instances like that.
    
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magnor@lemmy.magnor.ovh ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
They defederated hexbear preemptively. Why not this one ? This needs to happen.

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- reverendsteveii@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  They said it was because hexbear was pushing an ideology and therefore had nothing of value to add to the conversation
  
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  - magnor@lemmy.magnor.ovh ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    Well neither does this one. Good on the admins for taking action and defederating.
    
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lorkano@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Well, I dont think lemmy.world should be linked with instances that have totally different rules. Maybe small difference in rules is fine, but this extreme stuff will make entire lemmy.world less appealing

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AceFuzzLord@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
As much as I would probably disagree with their messages and posts, would they not do the same to us if the positions were to be switched?

I personally take a stance closer to “all deserve a connected platform and if you don’t like it, block them” as even if I might disagree with them, they still deserve a platform.

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- Izzent@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Maybe you should join them with this shit take, you’d fit right in giving the mic to Nazis and terrorists.
  
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- ComradeKeen@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  No one “deserves” a platform. People should have the right to free speech, but equal volume has never a guarantee. That’s up to your community.
  
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- CapraObscura@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  If you’re on board with platforming Nazis, YOU ARE A FUCKING NAZI.
  
  Fuck off, Nazi.
  
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  - AceFuzzLord@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    I do not support them nor what they do, but my belief is that every person deserves the freedom to speak their mind even if the message is hateful or I completely disagree with it.
    
    I for one do not support hate messages directed towards anyone besides communists, yet I still believe they should still be able to speak their hate since that is true, uncensored free speech.
    
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- diffuselight@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Lol. See US Republicans. Nah, tolerance should not be a mistake we repeat. Let’s go back to the Indiana Jones style of tolerance towards Nazis
  
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  - DragonTypeWyvern@literature.cafe ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    The paradox of tolerance disappears when you view tolerance as a social contract rather than a moral absolute.
    
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Cringe2793@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
So basically, they’ve done something to offend you, and you want to defederate from them because you don’t agree with whatever they’re doing or saying.

So much for freedom and no censorship. Go back to reddit if that’s what you want.

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trimmerfrost@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
So the aim is to make lemmy.world a left wing braindead echochamber? Thanks, I will make a new account on that instance for the sake of freedom

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Gnubyte@lemdit.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
I understand. But IMO this is a huge problem with federated server models: you’re making that choice for everyone on the server.

Now keep in mind I don’t know what they’re posting on rammy lemmy instance. If they’re doing some KKK shit over there I probably agree with you. But I’d say if it’s just right wing Trumpies I’d say it’s wrong to do that over political spectrum.

TLDR unless they’re breaking standard Internet boilerplate rules I don’t think it’s a good idea. Free speech is a good thing but it always comes with idiots. It’s a package deal.

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rist097@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Just ban their communities if you dont want to see their content, its not that hard!

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zer0@thelemmy.club ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
What do you get from defederating them? If you are concerned with these idiots go there and teach them what’s good, you will do a big favor for everyone. As long as they can’t censor you their stupid ideas will never win on good.

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Zeroxxx@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Just defederate everyone and make world standalone lmao.

Ego feels nice huh?

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