It feels so out of the blue, so unnecessary. Like the writer had been bored. It’s difficult to imagine that this didn’t jolt readers out of the story, even at the time.
I mean… there’s also a famous Agatha Christie’s book that used to have the N-word in its title.
We’re viewing these things with our modern eyes. But they didn’t have this kind of sensibility those days. It probably felt like using any other word: normal.
I wonder if our grandchildren will feel the same way about something we say normally today.
there’s also a famous Agatha Christie’s book that used to have the N-word in its title.
until 1985!
It was England, which never treated the n-world quite like those ungrateful colonials.
It was called out for being offensive even in that time by fellow English.
I doubt whether the vast majority of British readers would’ve been jolted by it - at the time of first publication. It was a word that had been in everyday parlance that got attached to dark “things” as a describer.
Here’s the thing though, go forward maybe 15 years again and you have the 1964 Smethwick constituency election. The winner had a, uhh, memorable slogan: “If you want a n***** for a neighbour, vote Labour.”
It’s worth noting that the “n*****s” in question were, most likely, gonna be from the Punjab. Go figure.
So, yeah, in less than a generation the word in question went from everyday speech with no overt pejorative meaning to the explicitly racist word it is today. It morphed.
I mean it is from 1951. I’ve seen a lot worse by people who meant it.
It’s 4 years before Emmett Till was murdered for example.
I wonder if Carlin ever tried sneaking that past the censors.
George Carlin was voicing Mr Conductor in the American dubs in the 1990s, so a solid 20 years after the retraction
I don’t remember him really weighing in on that word. And if I’m not mistaken he was friends with Richard Pryor.
It was NOT one of his 7 words you can’t say on T.V.
merc@sh.itjust.works 1 day ago
Languages change. Moron, idiot and imbecile used to be medical terms. Gay used to simply mean happy and excited. A fag used to be a term for a cigarette.
I really doubt it would have appeared in a mainstream children’s book if it were seen as at all offensive.
Words like “bugger” and “damn” used to be extremely offensive curses. Now they’re often used as very mild expressions of annoyance to avoid using the serious ones.
FishFace@piefed.social 1 day ago
Fag still is a term for a cigarette…
starik@lemmy.zip 1 day ago
Yeah, but only in old-timey countries, like England.
bitjunkie@lemmy.world 1 day ago
I had always heard that it originally meant a stick to be used for kindling and was adapted to smoking once the tobacco trade was a thing. Probably complete horseshit because no internet when I was a kid, but I never bothered to look it up.
FishFace@piefed.social 1 day ago
A faggot originally meant a bundle of sticks or twigs, and they were used to light fires, but I don’t think this has any relation to “fag” as in cigarette. Etymonline says of the latter:
That meaning of faggot, interestingly, comes from the same root as the Roman symbol “fasces” which is a bundle of sticks from which we get the modern word fascism.
Another fun fact: there’s a traditional British dish called faggots which are a kind of meatball made from offal, somewhat similar to haggis but uncased.
samus12345@sh.itjust.works 23 hours ago
Image
DamienGramatacus@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Weren’t idiot, moron and imbecile medical terms specifically used by white scientists to describe black people back in the good old eugenics days of the 1920’s America? Language changes sure but it often has very racist roots.
merc@sh.itjust.works 1 day ago
I’ve never heard anything about it having a racial component.
DamienGramatacus@lemmy.world 1 day ago
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moron_(psychology)?wprov=sf…
Moron is a term once used in psychology and psychiatry to denote mild intellectual disability.[1] The term was closely tied with the American eugenics movement.[2] Once the term became popularized, it fell out of use by the psychological community, as it was used more commonly as an insult than as a psychological term. It is similar to imbecile and idiot.[3]
the_crotch@sh.itjust.works 1 day ago
Buggery used to be a crime, now it’s a gay way to spend an afternoon
Rai@lemmy.dbzer0.com 22 hours ago
I wonder if straight people were ever convicted of buggery with he opposite sex? I wouldn’t be surprised if “buggery” existed solely to persecute homosexuals back then.
(I was gonna say “non-straight” or “queer” but “homosexuals” read in 30’s English accent sounded funnier to me in my head)
the_crotch@sh.itjust.works 21 hours ago
Found one example in the Wikipedia article about the buggery act of 1533, though it seems like he deserved it. I’m not clear if he was actually convicted.
JcbAzPx@lemmy.world 22 hours ago
Sodomy used to be a common add on charge in sexual assault cases. I don’t know if it was ever used outside that context other than to harass gay people. I assume buggery was used the same way.
merc@sh.itjust.works 23 hours ago
Nice one.
gerryflap@feddit.nl 1 day ago
Exactly. I started reading The Fellowship of the Ring again, and it takes some getting used to that “queer” is used in a completely different way than nowadays.
the_crotch@sh.itjust.works 1 day ago
Queer is a strange one for me, growing up it was a straight up offensive slur for gay people but now the LGBTQ community has embraced it hard enough to give it its own letter.
samus12345@sh.itjust.works 23 hours ago
As a Gen Xer, same. I still don’t like using the word due to the negative connotation it used to have.
zjti8eit@lemmy.dbzer0.com 23 hours ago
I thought Q was for questioning.
Maybe i’m too old, but when I was a kid it just meant different, like the family down the street is rather queer, or we played a game where someobody in the classroom would change one thing, like take off their sweater and when you opened your eyes you had to identify which kid was queer
samus12345@sh.itjust.works 23 hours ago
I must be old, since the original meaning is still what comes to mind first when I hear it in a non-LGBTQ context.
Image
daggermoon@piefed.world 21 hours ago
This is from South Africa in the year 2000. It just means unusual in this context.
https://www.songlyrics.com/saron-gas/beer-lyrics/
fartographer@lemmy.world 18 hours ago
“Bah humbug,” was that era’s equivalent of Scrooge wandering around saying, “whatever, bullshit.”
SaraTonin@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Enid Blyton used it a surprising amount. But she was also considered old-fashioned and racist by critics at the time, so…