Comment on Save me from going down a dark path
homes@piefed.world 9 hours ago
Oh my God, I super agree, probably in a way not a lot of readers here expect.
Joining narcotics anonymous comes with an immediate expectation that you will “except a higher power”. It is step one of “the program”. I find that propane, as an atheist. And it was a huge problem when I tried to join the program.
I won’t get into it further, because it would be long enough for its own post, but the religious dogma in the 12 step programs, including alcoholics, anonymous, is an incredible and introductory load of bullshit that only expands into further and more egregious loads of bullshit as you progress through the 12 steps.
The 12 step recovery programs were invented by amateurs in 1936. If you’re looking to recover from addiction, there have been invented far more effective programs for recovery in the last 100 years by professionals who actually know what they’re doing.
If you want to recover from addiction from alcohol or other addictive substances, do your research. 12 step programs have, at best, a 6% success rate. They are your worst option. You can do better.
Wow. Im an atheist. Im in an aa mtg room waiting for the mtg to start. No one gives me shit.
Step 2 is just accepting help. Admitting your not the one that has the all the answers. Every modern treatment ive heard of in 20 yrs either cribs aa, or eventually recommends it. Its not perfect, but I know dozens of people that are only alive because of it.
Different approaches work for different people, and every room and every meeting is different. I’ve personally found Smart Recovery to be more helpful.
I’ve never found them anywhere I’ve lived. After a quick google, it seems the main difference is the powerlessness in 1 and the higher power in 2. To me that’s just recognizing i cant stop once I start, and I cant stay stopped without help. Thats it thats all. Its not something I was taught, I’ve proven it to myself. Some people see a devil/God thing there because the culture in America in the 1930s was nominally Christian, and more observant than today.
The main benefit is I can find a meeting in almost any town, any day of the week. I feel at home in a meeting where I know everyone knows what its like to deal with addiction. I can sit down and feel ok, instead of on gaurd.
I am interested to know how low bottom cases fare in smart recovery. I mean like homeless junkies that boost for a living. 12 step recovery seems to have started from the bottom, and smart recovery from the higher bottom cases.
Work it. You’re worth it.
While I largely agree, most (not all, ofc) AA chapters will clarify that a “higher power” doesn’t have to be god. Could be fate, causality, or just the universe in and of itself - the purpose of the step is surrendering and accepting that you alone cannot resolve your addiction.
That being said, religion is pushed on you more often than not and many chapters will end with “the Lord’s Prayer” which always bothered me, along with other issues.
It’s not a perfect system, but it does work for many people and if it has helped you then all power to you (or rather your higher power, I guess)
My main gripe is that it often focuses on the symptoms rather than the root problem. Addiction is often the result of a deeper underlying condition that leads one to seek escape - be that depression, trauma, psychological conditions, etc… Treating only one without the other is frankly a disservice and rarely effective in the long term.
Thats true, but then they will turn around and start praying.
“God, grant me the…” It is kind of hard to look past that for some.
Yeah :\
Personally I just turned that into a mantra, removing the “god” part, because it is a good thing to remember and try to live by, but I get the irritation
Daniella Young (Knitting Cult Lady) is a cult scholar talks extensively about this as well as other cults. I highly recommend her for more info on this and how terrible these groups are for anyone who is interested.
I’ve followed her for a little bit now. I guess yt could tell I seen a cup of perc coffee or two and showed me her videos about AA. Ill say, she’s not wrong about poor behavior of repected members. She’s missing a lot of context though.
She wants a top down enforcement of policy to root out bad behavior. Completely reasonable in a govt, business, or religion that has leadership that is stable for the most part for years at a time. This is not the case for AA. Most groups that meet on a given day are simply the people in driving range that want to chat and work on themselves a bit in some quick group talk therapy. The membership is informal so as not to put of the reticent. That might sound sus, but these are people that constantly refuse help, easily accessible help sometimes. People change groups, join multiple, join none but attend many, and a manner of things.
Its like asking America as a whole to do better with allowing pdf files to victimize children. Yes, but its not like anyone’s encouraging it… and if anyone is a creep we watch out for it and warn people when necessary. Just like any group of friends in a neighborhood. Which is what we are, imo.
They took some anecdotal evidence from people that weren’t addicted to justify the “do it for a higher power.” People with issues (of almost any kind) more often feel shame bc they are letting the “higher power” down. It leads to disaster a lot. I love your insight.
Echolynx@lemmy.zip 5 hours ago
There is so much hidden religious dogma in a lot of American society/behavior in particular. It really shines out when you don’t come from a Christian upbringing.