Senal
@Senal@programming.dev
- Comment on Avocado. Is it really so untasty or I am doing something wrong? 16 hours ago:
Or the avocado is bland? not all avocado are built equally.
I would hedge that the penis consists of more than just regular skin there is a fair amount of erectile tissue in there as well, though i can’t vouch for a scientific difference is the taste experience.
- Comment on Bird Law 19 hours ago:
In the case of ducks, that’s quack on quack crime
- Comment on Avocado. Is it really so untasty or I am doing something wrong? 1 day ago:
- Comment on The script is mysterious and important. 1 week ago:
They even had an ending in the movie that was closer to the original , but they cut it/changed it because it didn’t test well.
I’d guess that was because it was an ending that followed the original storyline and didn’t make sense without the rest of the movie also following the original storyline.
spoiler
It turns out (or is apparent in general) that the “zombies” are sentient/sapient and to them he’s the monster in the dark(or daylight as is the case here), from their point of view he’s basically been abducting people for experimentation and killing anyone who comes looking for their abducted family. The zombie/vampire guy at the end is just looking for his partner to rescue her, once he has her, he leaves. www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKwZOa6CL6U
- Comment on "Being vegan is unnatural" 1 week ago:
I’m not sure a strictly maths based ethics is the way to go, that’s where you get into sociopath greater-good style considerations like “If i take out the managing team of <Big Meat Corp> , eventually they’ll recover but i’ll have saved approximately X animals in the meantime”
Don’t get me wrong, i’m not against that kind of thinking, i’m just not sure it’s a viable long-term lifestyle.
In order to produce 1 steak, a cow has to die.
In order to produce n steaks 1 cow has to die.
Arguably it’s probably slightly more than 1, given the morbidity rate of cows before they reach the “production” stage.
In order to produce 1 phone, many different people have to work to produce it, enslaved or not.
In order to produce 1 phone a non-zero number of people will (likely) be maimed/outright killed while working under slave labour conditions.
If you include the more realistic cost/benefits i suggested above does that change the calculations involved for you ?
The following is an aside to the main conversation:
It was been pointed out that some electronics are as good as necessities for most people, while i think there’s a subjective aspect to “necessity” I’ll concede some electronics use it’s not the same as meat consumption. Though i would further argue that under today’s food production and distribution systems, meat consumption could be argued to be a necessity in some situations.
But that’s almost certainly an entirely different conversation.
- Comment on "Being vegan is unnatural" 2 weeks ago:
In reference to my other conversation regarding the comparison of products that use electronics vs meat consumption, I would ask if “convenience” was a valid justification.
Given the horrors of the electronics supply chain (slavery, horrific working conditions, cartels etc) im not sure why convenience electronics (phones, laptops, pc’s) use would be OK, but meat consumption would not.
Im not saying the horrors are equivalent and it’s not a dig at you, I’m genuinely trying to figure out why one kind of horror is OK, but another is not and how people make those calls.
- Comment on "Being vegan is unnatural" 2 weeks ago:
Hope this helps <3
It does and your points are valid, but i’ll respond to a couple if you don’t mind.
Honestly, if someone is truly aware of the horrors of the animal agriculture industry and is totally fine with it, I would be very, very surprised.
As would i (outside of the sociopath possibility you also mention) , i was thinking more along the lines of people who fully understand and then accept it as something they can live with.
The comparisons of the meat industry to electronics i mostly agree with, except for this last part, not because it’s incorrect as such, i just didn’t provide enough context.
Melting metal, pouring it into moulds to make circuitry, etc. doesn’t hurt anyone directly, it’s capitalism and the drive for maximal profits which cause issues in electronics. I’m a huge proponent for the abolition of capitalism for this reason too.
I mentioned electronics because it’s easy for people to at least shallowly understand how much they use them, what’s not so obvious is the horrors of how they are produced, in a similar way to how people as a whole don’t really understand how the meat industry is run.
Long before the metal pouring and assembly you have the rare earth elements industry that uses horrific limb-removing slave work camps to extract these minerals. it’s not all of them, but it’s significantly more than zero.
There are also cartel like warlords involved in some of the extraction sites.
Think of it as a similar situation to conflict diamonds, but more entrenched and critical to nation state interests.
I mentioned cobalt because it’s the easiest to find credible documentaries, reports and discussions about, but it’s not just cobalt.
Honestly a lot of the big industries are supported by modern day slavery and inhumane conditions or experimentation, i would also assume that extends to the non-human animals as well but i can’t honestly speak to that.
Textiles (clothes, shoes, trainers), agriculture (avocado’s have cartels because of course they do, coffee), pharmaceuticals, non-meat food (chocolate for example).
I keep coming back to the phrase “There is no ethical consumerism under capitalism” which aligns with your stance on the abolition of capitalism, but i tend to think of it as there is no ethical consumerism in general (at least right now) because i can’t think of a way we could ethically overcome the sheer density of population using the level of logistical technology we have available and that’s not even taking into account the (subjective) apparent nature of how human’s deal with such large populations.
But me not being able to see how we make the jump from now to a post scarcity, fully equitable society is almost certainly just a failure of my imagination.
My main question is how do people seem to be able to decide they can live with limbless kid electronics but slave labour clothes are too far, cartel avocado’s are an unfortunate necessity but meat is monstrous.
I understand that not all of those things are equal and battles need to be picked but it doesn’t seem like the subjective severity is the deciding factor and how are the battles picked.
- Comment on "Being vegan is unnatural" 2 weeks ago:
See my answer below for context on why i asked
- Comment on "Being vegan is unnatural" 2 weeks ago:
and then , once they acknowledge that ?
The reason i ask is that I’ve never heard an opinion from someone with the viewpoint it seems you hold talk about what they’d think in that situation.
and my follow up would be to ask why meat and not electronics (explained below) or textiles or megacorps ?
In general i struggle with why people place these ethical and moral rubicons in the places they do (i do mostly understand why the lines exist)
I mentioned in another comment about the horrific shit that goes in to basically all electronics (there are numerous documentaries and articles on the horrors of cobalt mining for instance) and it seems odd that people are ok with that but not the meat industry, or perhaps fine with both of those but draw the line at baby animals.
Again, i understand why the lines exist, it’s the seemingly arbitrary nature of where they are placed for different circumstances that eludes me.
I’m asking so i can gather opinions enough that hopefully i can understand, eventually
- Comment on "Being vegan is unnatural" 2 weeks ago:
OK, so if negative fucks were a thing that would be how may fucks in general i give about the actual argument you are having.
That being said, to me it seems hypocritical to be throwing shade about intentional animal cruelty unless you are somehow posting these replies without using any electronics whatsoever.
Almost all electronics require materials sourced or processed off the back of rare earth minerals not even mentioning the supply chain and assembly.
As you said, people are animals too, slavery and workplace mutilation are animal abuse.
I’m not whattabouting your argument, both things are fucked up and one doesn’t cancel out the other and as i said, i’m not supporting either side.
but the stunning lack of awareness (or acknowledgement) of the hypocrisy of your argument is offensive.
- Comment on "Being vegan is unnatural" 2 weeks ago:
Real question, what if there is no cognitive dissonance.
Like someone who knows exactly what’s going on and says “fuck it, it’s delicious” ?
- Comment on "Being vegan is unnatural" 2 weeks ago:
Ah the tried and tested “it’s ok if it’s my property” which historically(and currently) is a universal guideline for what is and isn’t ok.
- Comment on Littering 🚯 2 weeks ago:
TL;DR;
My only point has consistently been that your statements lacked important supporting context and are written like they are the only correct option, that weakens them.
Questioning your weak statements seems to have upset you and rather than actually responding to my only actual point you’ve constructed multiple other positions i’ve not taken.
When asked for examples you moved to “you are discussing in bad faith” (still no examples , i might add).
A discussion is impossible with someone unwilling to engage (or unable to understand) the actual position of the other party.
The rest is just a long winded version of this, feel free to skip it.
Literally nothing is required. What’s your point? Are you just trying to argue about nothing? …
My whole point, which i have stated multiple times, is that your statements are weak.
things like “and it does need to be done.” implies that it is the only answer, when it isn’t.
There is a problem with lead bullets. There’s also a problem with a lack of natural predation. We should try to solve these problems. We don’t have to solve any problem, but what’s the point in starting arguments with people online saying we don’t need to solve anything?
Again, point to where anyone said we don’t need to solve anything ?
If you answer to someone questioning the validity of your statements is to say “fuck it, obviously you just mean we shouldn’t solve anything” then i can expect there’s nothing further to gain from a conversation.
I had to go back to see what was said. I didn’t say anything was special about it being natural, like what you implied by saying it was magical. I said it’s kept naturally healthy by predators, as in nature had a mechanism to keep it healthy. This isn’t an appeal to nature, as you implied. It’s a statement of fact. It isn’t saying natural is better. It’s saying there is a natural thing. Doing it without nature accomplishes the same goal. So you did “quote me” in that you used two words I also used, you didn’t include anything else surrounding it, and made it say something it didn’t.
I literally quoted the surrounding sentence in that reply, not just the two words, if you didn’t read it , that’s on you.
As i’ve said, multiple times, there are mechanisms in place for balance and/or collapse, healthy is subjective.
As I said. We could wait for evolution to take its course. I don’t think waiting centuries with booming and crashing populations of animals is a particularly smart idea. Maybe you do, but you haven’t said anything other than “we don’t have to do anything.” Again, no shit! Stop writing these long comments saying literally nothing.
In your reply to me, yes, in the original response, not so much, which again i will remind you is the actual issue i’ve been mentioning this whole time.
My original reply was basically , “i don’t agree or disagree with your points but perhaps add context so your arguments aren’t so brittle” everything after that is responding to your questions. Its seems my responses aren’t to your liking but i’m not sure there’s anything i can do about that.
I’ll add a TL;DR; for you so you can skim.
No, we don’t. We don’t need to discuss magical fairies taking care of the problem. We don’t need to discuss finding a magic lamp to solve the problem. Some things can safely be ignored because they’re so unlikely to happen.
I never said discussion was needed, i said that ruling out options is a part of how decisions and policies are made, if you think magical fairies being ruled out requires discussion, that’s on you.
In the actual context on this thread of discussion i think that artificially increased predation could be (and historically has been) a viable solution to overpopulation.
Ceding areas to wildlife has also been used.
I said specifically that a shitstorm would probably be the result of dropping our current measures without a replacement that doesn’t mean other options can’t be discussed.
And that whole reply was again to point out the statement you made was an implied objective fact.
You aren’t making any argument besides that we should do everything but discuss how to solve these issues.
I mean…no , i’ll quote my repeated statements of my only arguments :
I don’t know if it’s on purpose but your answer seems to be ignoring a lot of the realities of how the things you are proposing would work (or not work, as the case may be).
I don’t necessarily disagree(or agree) with you, but i absolutely think your arguments need work.
My only argument has been that your statements were omitting what i would consider important context.
and then in this response
“i don’t agree or disagree with your points but perhaps add context so your arguments aren’t so brittle”
If you want to attribute some other argument to me (that isn’t a direct response to your questions) I’d appreciate if you could point out where it was made.
This is my last reply unless you actually want to have a discussion. If you do, discuss in good faith. We do not have to rule out things that can’t reasonably happen.
All of my responses were in good faith, if you don’t understand that dismissing something because it is unlikely is literally ruling out an option i can’t help you with that.
We should assume that suffering is at least somewhat negative.
I don’t know what yo mean by this but I’m fairly sure i haven’t argued to the contrary.
We should assume that environmental experts saying prey populations need to be culled are correct.
Again, i haven’t argued against this, only that it’s not the only option, as was implied.
If you don’t agree to these, there isn’t a discussion to be had.
I agree, “If you don’t agree to these things I’ve unilaterally stated to be true with no contextual support or citations then your responses are in bad faith” isn’t a discussion, it’s a personal echo chamber.
- Comment on Littering 🚯 2 weeks ago:
Yes. That formal enforced regulation needs to exist, and I don’t know anywhere that it doesn’t. In the US, you need a license, and you can only kill a certain number of the animal per season, and that’s all based on how many of the animals need to be culled, and it does need to be done. Equilibrium is maintained through this regulation.
Animals don’t need to be culled, for the maintenance of the current pseudo equilibrium it’s probably a good idea, but it’s not an absolute requirement.
I never said “naturally healthy”
I literally quoted you.
I said they evolved to have a certain percentage of losses. If that isn’t maintained by other predators, we need to do it. It’s naturally (in its current state) unhealthy. Hunting is required to keep it healthy.
Hunting is the one of the current mechanisms we use to (roughly) maintain the status quo, it’s not the only mechanism, nor is it the only option, it’s just one of the ones we are using right now.
Healthy is relative in multiple ways, there would be a new equilibrium on the other side of the shitstorm that would probably arise from us dropping our current efforts with no replacement.
That might be subjectively bad for us, but it would exist.
Sure. That’d be another solution. If we’re discussing policy, I think we can safely ignore it though. There’s a lot of solutions that are not going to happen. We don’t need to rule out all of them to discuss what we actually can do.
Unless there’s some sort of magic book that already has the answers to what is and isn’t viable then we very much do need to rule them out, that’s how decisions and policies are made.
No. They boom and collapse. This repeats, until evolution takes it’s course maybe, which will be quite a while. It doesn’t reach an equilibrium state because they evolutionary pressures were different when they evolved. Maybe this isn’t true for all prey animals, but many, such as deer and rabbits, it is. Population booms, they eat all easily available food, they die off from starvation or disease, then they boom back.
I’m not sure what the no is about given the following sentences basically say the same thing i did.
If they aren’t fit they die off, a new equilibrium is reached or the ecosystem collapses.
“They boom and collapse.,This repeats, until evolution takes it’s course maybe, which will be quite a while.” is one way an equilibrium is reached if the species(singular or plural) don’t die off.
A lot of your argument against hunting is that it requires regulation. No one is arguing against that. It is needed, and this is already recognized and enforced. We just need to now enforce participation in a way that doesn’t create negative externalities from lead poisoning.
I’d be interested to see where you’re seeing an argument against hunting from me as, afaik, i haven’t said anything to that effect.
My only argument has been that your statements were omitting what i would consider important context.
- Comment on Littering 🚯 2 weeks ago:
Sure, you can hunt without guns. I don’t really see an argument for not using them though, as long as there’s no lead.
In the isolated context of lead poisoning alone, sure, banning lead is an answer.
In the greater context of gun ownership in general, it’s more tricky.
But i wasn’t advocating either , simply pointing out that banning guns and allowing hunting aren’t mutually exclusive.
What’s really the ethical or environment argument in favor of only allowing bows, or whatever?
There are some , but i wasn’t pushing for any so i’m not sure they are relevant here.
I see the emotional appeal, if people have a negative view of guns. Not a logical appeal though, besides maybe making them harder to access to prevent deaths by firearms.
Either you haven’t thought this all way through or you are intentionally ignoring the whole host of other emotional and logical arguments around gun control.
If you can ban hunting with firearms, you can also just ban using lead ammo, so I don’t see how banning them is the best option in general.
As was said previously, in this isolated context you are probably right, in any kind of wider context, not so much.
I didn’t make any proposals in my above comment. It’s entirely statements of observations. I don’t know what you mean by saying you don’t see how they would work or not. I gave explanations of why hunting isn’t negative, and is often positive, but not any proposals of how anything should be done. Would you care to elaborate?
That’s possibly my bad, i meant more that you were making statements without any (written) consideration to the wider context in which they were made.
I don’t necessarily disagree(or agree) with you, but i absolutely think your arguments need work.
Examples:
I will preface this by saying that my perspective on “nature” is that we are part of it, even will all the fucked up self destructive stuff we have going on , so it’s not like we can really do anything “unnatural”, i use the term natural below to mean nature if we didn’t have such an outsized effect on natural processes.
From an environmental perspective, hunting keeps pray populations in naturally healthy levels, since most of their predators are driven out of populated areas, because people don’t like to be attacked by wild animals.
That’s only true in an ecosystem where the predator (us) and the prey are in natural equilibrium, which I’m sure you’ll agree is absolutely not the case.
Without that natural equilibrium you need formal and enforced regulation to make this work.
This magical “naturally healthy” state of existence glosses over a lot of problems with that statement.
It also doesn’t consume many resources, as they’re just living their lives in nature.
Also requires a natural equilibrium or regulation as a baseline.
I don’t think there’s any valid argument against hunting honestly, besides just being grossed out by it. I can’t construct a good argument against it though, and I suspect you can’t either.
Overhunting and ecosystem collapse, trophy hunting, selective hunting (think ivory), disease control, hunting for “sport” (think fox “hunting”).
Those were just off the top of my head.
and remember animals dying and being eaten is natural, and frequently necessary to maintain an equilibrium that was evolved to be maintained by external factors
an equilibrium, not the only equilibrium, it also mentions evolution of equilibriums but is presented from a perspective that the equilibrium presented is now fixed (it is not).
we are also animals, so us dying and being eaten also fall under this, so by that rationale another effective solution could be to reintroduce more (non-human) predators and a few of us die here and there, but the animal populations now stay under control.
Deer, for example, will die horrible deaths of starvation, and do damage to the environment, if they aren’t hunted by humans.
Until a new equilibrium is reached, because that’s how ecosystems work (or collapse, depending).
- Comment on Littering 🚯 2 weeks ago:
Crazy ape comment aside (i’d put it closer to apes with delusions of grandeur but that’s just me), not shooting guns and allowing hunting aren’t mutually exclusive.
Especially given all the hunting that happened pre-gun.
I don’t know if it’s on purpose but your answer seems to be ignoring a lot of the realities of how the things you are proposing would work (or not work, as the case may be).
- Comment on No Man's Sky Remnant Trailer 3 weeks ago:
Subjective art opinions as a basis for an argument, with no supporting positions ? that’s some 5 year old’s conversational skill right there.
Might as well have said “nuh uh”.
Enjoy your weak debate skills !
- Comment on Cost of UK’s drug price deal with US will come out of NHS budget 4 weeks ago:
“The timetable for the planned forced dissolution of the NHS and following privatisation has been moved up due to new opportunities in creatively assigning financial burdens.”
- Comment on Games you really want to play, but can't or won't? 5 weeks ago:
Holy fuck, “Space logistics simulator with some casual space piracy” the game.
For the receptive kind of brain that’s some premium crack.
- Comment on Bri'ish Cuisine 5 weeks ago:
- Comment on Anon recaps the DCEU 1 month ago:
I could be wrong but I’ve only ever heard it used to imply black people (not all poc’s) acting violent or loudly.
Like how they imagine a chimpanzee would act, I assume.
Im not expecting great depth of thought from people using this phrase knowing it’s origin.
- Comment on Anon recaps the DCEU 1 month ago:
Unironically used the term “chimped out”
Either a born and bred 4chan native or a very dedicated method actor.
- Comment on Having a rough morning. I'm still pondering the question about beavers, and my kid asks me THIS 2 months ago:
- Comment on idk 2 months ago:
TL; DR;
- Using bad analogies to explain things that are already confusing helps no-one
- AI is currently a marketing term used to push LLM’s
- Tools used appropriately garner satisfactory results.
people need to specify that they’re against generative LLMs, like Chat-bots or slop-generators, not “all AI”.
I agree, how does throwing out bad comparisons relate to that ?
There was just a thread on Twitter where a company showcased an amazing tool for animators - where you, for example, prepare your walking/sitting/standing animations, but then instead of motion-capturing or manually setting the scene up, you just define two keyframes - the starting and the ending position of the character… and then their AI picks the appropriate animations, merges between them and animates the character walking from one position to the other.
It’s a phenomenal tool for creatives, but because the term “AI” appeared, the company got shat on by random people.
if you are talking about cascadeur or something similar, that doesn’t use an LLM afaict, it’s based on ML Trained on their own internal data (or so they say).
I don’t disagree that tools used in a way that plays to their strength are useful.
People are often conflating AI with LLM’s, which makes sense for the average person, because that’s how it’s been marketed and sold.
LLM’s aren’t even really AI but here we are.
No. All generative graphical slop AIs and generic chat-bot LLMs have been trained on large corpus of data that has been obtained by various sketchy and illegitimate means.
I was very specific in my wording, but as i said, i could be wrong, if you can point to any big commercial LLM’s that don’t adhere to my classification i will concede the point.
THAT’S the major difference.
I mean, yes, that’s what i said.
So i stand my my conclusion that in the context you laid out, Photoshop isn’t a good comparison to most, if not all of the current tools that would be considered AI.
So, he basically says something that directly contradicts what you’re saying - he prefers the generative slop machines, than tools that actually help developers or artists.
I could be wrong but half of that statement was sarcasm.
I basically read it as:
So I’m gonna execute the code of someone who doesn’t know the first thing about coding on my computer? Great! I’d rather have AI art and human code.
Running code someone vibed up without understanding what it’s doing, it stupid If i had to pick one way around or the other, I’d rather have AI art(which is this case is significantly less of a security risk) and human code (which should potentially be of a higher quality)
I think the fundamental misunderstanding here is how the term AI is used.
None of these things are really intelligent and LLM’s are predictive semi-hallucination machines cobbling together best guesses at what’s supposed to come next in the sequence.
The way i personally see it is that the latest gen “AI” stuff is basically sitting on LLM’s in some capacity. Area recognition, language, image/code generation etc.
Anything else is just normal(perhaps smart) tools, using algorithms of some kind, ML etc
- Comment on idk 3 months ago:
Weak comparisons help no-one, photoshop is nothing like LLM’s
All of the big commercial LLM’s (without exception afaik) have been trained on a large corpus of data that has been obtained by various sketchy and illegitimate means. (some legitimate as well).
That’s the major difference between the two.
If you are using a model that has only been trained on legally obtained data, disregard this point.
I’m not even against competent tool use of LLM’s but please use better arguments.
- Comment on A place for conservatives 3 months ago:
Pointing out potential hypocrisy isn’t homophobic, that you think it is, says a lot more about you than them.
- Comment on F dieting! 4 months ago:
- Comment on Coinbase CEO explains why he fired engineers who didn’t try AI immediately 6 months ago:
Perhaps for the the style or complexity of the code you (and i) are seeing on a regular basis this is true.
I find, for low logical complexity code, it’s less about the difficulty of reading it and more about the speed.
I can read significantly quicker than i can type and if the code isn’t something i need additional time to reason about then spotting issue with existing code can be quicker than me writing the same code out.
Boilerplate code is a good example of this.
Though, as i said, I’ve found the point at which that loses it’s reliable usefulness is relatively low in the complexity scale.
The specific issue i have with people pushing LLM’s as a panacea for boilerplate code is that it’s not declarative and is prone to reasonable looking hallucinations , given enough space.
Even boilerplate in large enough amount can be subject to eccentricities of LLM imagination.
- Comment on Coinbase CEO explains why he fired engineers who didn’t try AI immediately 6 months ago:
It’s a revolutionary tool in its infancy, and it’s already very useful on certain tasks.
That’s a bold and premature statement IMO, how many AI winters have there been before this one ?
I’m not even saying you’re wrong, but to assert it with such confidence sounds like crypto bro-nanigans.
i would argue that it’s evolutionary rather than revolutionary, but that’s subjective i suppose.
I’ll never understand the LLM hate on lemmy.
Speaking for me personally i don’t hate LLM’s i dislike the confidence with which they are being pushed and the lack of acknowledgement of their limitations.
You get statements like
“And most devs I know use it everyday”
Without context, and that feeds into the general propaganda feel of the sentiment, because people who don’t actually use them or don’t understand the implied context hear “LLM’s can do all the things, all the professional devs are using it all day”.
I understand it’s not on you to police peoples impressions, but trying to add actual context to those statements isn’t hate, it’s prudence.
Then again, that’s subjective too.
- Comment on Coinbase CEO explains why he fired engineers who didn’t try AI immediately 6 months ago:
It’s much faster to check code for correctness than it is to write it in the first place.
In certain circumstances sure, but at any level of complexity, not so much.
At some point it becomes less about code correctness and more about logical correctness, which requires contextual domain understanding.
Want to churn out directory changing python scripts, go nuts.
Want to add business logic that isn’t a single discrete change to an existing system, less likely.
For small things is works OK, it’s less useful the more complex the task.
