The EU moves to kill infinite scrolling

Comments

• Mihies@programming.dev ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Reading this on Jerboa with infinite scrolling 😱

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  • lvxferre@mander.xyz ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    IIRC Dessalines (Lemmy and Jerboa frontend dev) once said to regret adding infinite scrolling, and the only reason he didn’t remove the feature is because people would rage. So odds are Jerboa will be one of the first to comply.

    And… frankly? As much as I criticise Lemmy devs, I think Dessalines is right in this one.

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    • GammaGames@beehaw.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Voyager (like Apollo before it) has the option to disable infinite scrolling, I won’t use a client with it

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    • Mihies@programming.dev ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      But why? I don’t mind infinite scrolling here. And an option to opt in/out and everybody’s happy I suppose.

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    • saimen@feddit.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      I am so braindead I can’t even imagine how it would work without endless scrolling?

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  • turboSnail@piefed.europe.pub ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    The website uses pages instead of infinite scrolling. I guess that’s compliant then.

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• TehPers@beehaw.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Doesn’t look like this extends beyond TikTok, or at least mainstream social media as a whole.

  Infinite scroll itself isn’t really a problem. It’s just one of the many tools used to keep users engaged on these platforms specifically by removing an interruption from the experience, but isn’t sufficient on its own to create that unhealthy behavior. It’s also used in healthier ways, like search results, chat logs, and so on.

  The EU attempting to rein in these platforms’ control over its users will be interesting to watch. There are decades of research these companies have done on user psychology to maximize their capture of the user’s attention. Forcing them not to use all the tools they developed might result in people breaking out of the cycle of endlessly scrolling. Or it might just annoy users. I don’t know which will happen.

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  • MagicShel@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I think the thought is, it’s not a bad thing if you get annoyed after scrolling through 100 of something and having to click next. It’s like that lady that comes up on TikTok and says why the fuck are you still scrolling? Touch grass, maybe.

    I basically agree with you. You can’t really ban dark patterns even though we all agree they suck. Legislature is the worst group of people to design UX.

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    • TehPers@beehaw.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      You can’t really ban dark patterns even though we all agree they suck.

      I think the point I was getting at was that a lot of things dark patterns do are individually things that have the potential for good or bad. Infinite scroll is one example. There’s also modals, sale banners, and so on.

      What makes a dark pattern dark isn’t the specific, individual tools at use. It’s the sum of those, plus the intent.

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  • Sina@beehaw.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I don’t don’t think this is useful at all, if it only results in a next button occasionally popping up.

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    • wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      It provides a natural stopping point, which as another user explained requires a conscious effort to continue rather than infinite scrolling which requires a conscious effort to stop.

      It doesn’t sound like much, but it can be those little things that make the difference. A little bit less on one side of the scale, and a little bit more on another.

      I know I find myself scrolling for way longer than I intended, and when I look back and realize how much I scrolled it always seems to surprise me. Sometimes I tell myself I’m about to stop, but I just keep going. I see another headline at the bottom of the screen and have to click on it. After that I see another one below it, etc. Sometimes I have to scroll so the screen ends on one post, and I won’t let it show the one below it, cause otherwise I might never stop.

      People whose minds are already wired for addiction can struggle with this. Just like with beer. “One felt good, so twelve must feel twelve times as good.” It’s a subconscious process, but it can feel like a vortex and be really hard to escape.

      Pagination would take away that “mindless” aspect, and for instance I could see when I reach page 10 or whatever and decide that’s far enough. Or I could hop on and just scroll one page. Or I could scroll a few pages and then say “Okay at the bottom of this page I’m stopping.” It’s much easier that way for people who struggle with it.

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  • corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    It’s also used in healthier ways, like search results, chat logs, and so on.

    That’s an excellent point. Viewing a log file over the web, particularly when it’s still growing, absolutely needs infinite scrolling. The Old Way is UX poison.

    Is RedHat the company in on this? Is it because they can’t figure out how to scroll text well in their AAP/Tower/whatever platform and are annoyed with people chanting YOU HAD ONE JOB at them? (no need to look it up – that entire Tower product and the tech behind it would be hot garbage 20 years ago and is hot garbage now, so I’m just dunking on them)

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• belated_frog_pants@beehaw.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  A weird thing to flex on tbh but i do miss normal pagination. Getting back to your spot with infinite scroll sucks.

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• leriotdelac@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Infinite scrolling stays my least favorite interface trend. What’s wrong with the pages? I’m very glad it would be changed.

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  • Frenchgeek@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    How about “Webpage with ‘about us’ and other informing links converted to infinite scrolling, leaving those links at the end of infinity”?

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  • Noja@sopuli.xyz ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I have chronic pain and want to limit clicking “Next” all the time

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    • leriotdelac@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      I’m sorry it’s painful for you! Then would be great to have an option to choose between scrolling and page views.

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    • jnod4@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      All of us have to endure so you can be pleased, of course, milord!

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• pglpm@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Of course such measures are much simpler than fixing the current education system, which is the root cause of lack of critical thinking and self-control.

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  • jol@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Highly educated people can be addicted to gambling tactics too

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  • themurphy@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    What-about-ism.

    Why should people looking at social media addiction look at the education system?

    In what world is it a choice between the two?

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  • jagermo@feddit.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Yes, it could be better. But its also parents who need to get their shit together. I know so many who park their kids in front of tablet, phone or pc - not for a breather or a short distraction, but as the standard way to entertain kids.

    Because they fear that the kids might be bored. But boredom is good, it gets creative juices flowing. However, you have to be hard and tell nagging kids no, and that is hard

    If kids have been inducted to immediately get a phone whenever they whine a bit, there is not much school can do.

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    • LukeZaz@beehaw.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      That’s still a separate issue. Infinite scroll is scarcely ever used in a good way, and is almost always used to encourage addictive behavior; something which affects adults just as much as children. It’s a nasty dark-pattern and little else.

      As far as I’m concerned, banning infinite scroll could easily be a very good thing, and I’m in favor.

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  • Tehdastehdas@piefed.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Is it still like this?

    https://www.quora.com/Do-you-think-public-schools-in-your-country-are-designed-to-make-kids-docile-obedient-workers-for-the-upper-class/answer/Harri-K-Hiltunen

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    • pglpm@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Thank you for sharing this!

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  • corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    such measures are much simpler than fixing the current education system

    it’s harm reduction while we also work to build a tolerance to the drug … through learning and reasoning.

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  • wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    The problems are interconnected and should both be addressed. If this is a sore spot for you then you might want to consider your own scrolling habits…

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  • HK65@sopuli.xyz ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    The EU does not oversee education, it’s usually a emember state or even lower level responsibility.

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• Lembot_0006@programming.dev ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Wow, look: crazies start to address actual problems instead of banning children and forcing IDs. What happened? Some important fascist died?

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• schnurrito@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  sad John Perry Barlow noises

  www.eff.org/cyberspace-independence

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  • LukeZaz@beehaw.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    So, sans much context (short of a quick read on Wikipedia on the Telecommunications Act of 1996), this honestly looks like naive libertarianism, and reads like an obnoxious manifesto. Feels appropriate for the attitude of the 90s, I suppose – from what I know, there was a lot more belief in the internet as a frontier of freedom and justice, then – but it’s not so fitting these days. Many of the internet’s ills have spawned from an environment of shockingly little regulation, and I’d argue the all-too-common “move fast and break things” paradigm devolved into existence from that, too.

    Which isn’t to say that a low-regulation environment can’t work. But it needs specific alternatives; you can’t just not fix something. And infinite scroll is definitely a something, here. It absolutely contributes to creating an addictive environment while adding almost no good whatsoever. Personally, even if this letter had aged well, I don’t think this would be an appropriate time to reference it.

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    • corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      libertarianism

      I’m sorry to say you lost me at this word, so super-charged that my brain now filters the content and speaker.

      But I came really to say: Dude. FOOTNOTES?!? We can do that here? Beautiful example; Legend. Thanks for showing me how.

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