If landlords didn’t exist anymore, how would shared flats work?

Submitted ⁨⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨lukstru@lemmy.world⁩ to ⁨[deleted]⁩

I just saw this post about landlords being parasitic. While I agree in some points - mainly that by owning more property than you need for yourself, you’re driving up the price for others who want to buy a property. However, I don’t want to buy property when I move. I don’t have the funds for it, and I’m happy with a rented flat. Sure I want to get my own property at some point, however I’m also sure I want to move at least two more times in my life. Buying and selling each time sounds like a lot of hassle. Also, I live in a shared flat, that just sounds like a legal nightmare if the ownership changed every time someone moved out. How does this fit together? Are there solutions to this that don’t require landlords to exist?

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einkorn@feddit.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago
One solution is community housing where the local government is the landlord and by extend the people in the area.

Another is housing cooperatives, which are groups of people pooling their money to build and operate housing.

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- lukstru@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago
  TIL about housing cooperatives, and that about 6% in Germany live in one. Thanks!
  
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  - rikudou@lemmings.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago
    Fairly common in Czechia, though it’s not that great. You formally own a share of the house which might come with the benefit of a flat. The cooperative can decide to move you out. Sure, you’ll still own the share, but if enough shareholders decide you’re out, you’re out. You want your kids to inherit the flat? Same thing applies, better hope there’s not someone who can sway others to not do it.
    
    Shit like this isn’t something that happens often, but I personally know of three similar cases. Which is not a huge amount, but on the other hand I’m just one person. Definitely wouldn’t like those odds.
    
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  - jol@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago
    They’re very hard to come by, because usually it stays in the family.
    
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xkbx@startrek.website ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago
Coops already exist. Basically they’re already set up so that when people move in, they own part of it, and when they move out, they don’t. The technical legal details of it varies from your country, region, municipality, etc, but from my basic understanding, when you sign your contract, it includes saying “you own this building with us until you move out. We might ask you to move out if you poop in the communal garden.”

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- neidu3@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago
  Yup. I used to live next to a housing coop. It was the “experimental” neighborhood of the city, so it attracted some rather interesting people as well, but the place was nice and it seemed to work pretty well. I used to walk via there twice a day between daycare and the most convenient bus stop.
  
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GissaMittJobb@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago
To draw a parallel to the problem of health care - in systems of socialized medicine, a health insurer does de-facto exist, so health insurance does not get entirely abolished when switching to socialized medicine. It’s just that the health insurer is now the government, and the system is no longer ran to optimize for extracting money out of the system, but instead to optimize for population-level health.

Similarly, when trying to reform the housing market, landlords don’t fully go away - you can for example imagine a system where the government becomes a very large landlord and optimizes the system for maximum level of ‘people housed’ (or whatever you want to optimize this system for).

There are also various forms of housing cooperatives, where the landlord is a body consisting of all the tenants collectively.

The landlord most people want to be rid of is the rent-seeking kind, which optimizes the system for extracting money.

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- chillinit@lemmynsfw.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago
  To us, for something to be labeled as socialized it must be operated for human welfare. But, most governments would gladly label something as socialized and continue to operate it for profit.
  
  I think we’d agree about this word. In this post I’m only trying to clean up some ambiguity so others can more easily perceive the grift.
  
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Ziggurat@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago
A part of the solution is “government owned housing” rented at fair price. Most countries have such housing for “poor people” but not enough for everyone. Let alone the whole “cut-down in welfare budget” means that these building are badly maintained and that even if you’re poor enough but not homeless (e.g. full time minimal wage) you still need years for your application to be accepted. I believe that Denmark and Austria are the few countries where this model is common even for middle class. It may-be a model to follow, at least for lower middle class

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Lemming421@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago
There are many reasons why renting is better for some people and buying is better for others.

Renting gives you the flexibility to just up sticks and leave at a known notice period. You don’t have to worry about the boiler breaking, or mould/damp, or the roof coming off (or like I’m about to have to deal with, a fence panel getting blown away in a storm) because your contact with the landlord says they’ll fix that for you.

There should absolutely be that choice available.

The problem, at least in the UK and probably elsewhere, is that renting is just SO expensive that it’s not possible to rent and save money, meaning that if your goal is to buy, you can’t because you can’t raise the deposit, even if paying a mortgage on a similar sized property would actually be cheaper on a monthly basis.

Sure, you read stories about people who are wonderful landlords, they don’t raise rents, or at least, by less than market rates, they’re quick to fix any problems the tenants have, all that good stuff.

Equally, you read stories about people who are basically renting from Satan and all the things I mentioned above take months or years to get fixed, if ever. (Slumlords are definitely people who should be put up against the wall and shot come the revolution)

I’m assuming the vast majority are somewhere in the middle.

But the fact that you’ll probably rent for at least some of your life shouldn’t drain all your money into someone else’s mortgage. As I said in that other post, housing of some form should be a basic human right. And the fact that individuals or companies can buy many houses and leave them empty because they can afford to have rents set so high that most people can’t afford them? That’s just wrong.

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deadcatbounce@reddthat.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago
[deleted]
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- Charapaso@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago
  From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.
  
  some guy who doesn’t know much about “Real Communism”
  
  Communism doesn’t argue people are all equal in abilities: but instead it argues that people’s needs should be met, regardless.
  
  This doesn’t mean we all should live in the same identical brick huts, either. We just shouldn’t be so barbaric that we let people starve to death in a gutter, even if it’s because of their own failures.
  
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- TheKMAP@lemmynsfw.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago
  Why not put their capital into making people equally fortunate and able? Are you saying that ability to succeed is genetic?
  
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  - jol@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago
    It’s inherited alright, just not through DNA.
    
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bear@lemmynsfw.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago
Driving up the price is good for builders which is then good for buyers and renters. Nothing wrong with owning and renting homes.

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- glimse@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago
  What kind of mental gymnastics are you doing to come to the conclusion that higher prices are good for renters lol
  
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  - refurbishedrefurbisher@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago
    Well, you see, when rich people get richer, the wealth, like, trickles down or something.
    
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  - bear@lemmynsfw.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago
    It’s already explained. More builders, more homes, more choices.
    
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- Glide@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago
  
  Driving up the price is good for builders which is then good for ~~buyers~~ investors and ~~renters~~ corporate owners . Nothing wrong with owning ~~and renting~~ homes.
  
  No worries, fam, I got you fixed up.
  
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- mke_geek@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago
  You are correct that there’s nothing wrong with being a rental property owner.
  
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computerscientistII@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago
The world is not black and white. Example: I am a rentee in Germany in a house with 16 flats. My landlord owns exactly one flat in this house, the one I live in. The house and the adjacent house is owned by a community of owners. They meet once a year for decisions of all kind. They employ the services of a buidling managament company that sees to things like light fixtures in the garage and stairwells, cleaning of stairwells, repairs, winter service, trash cans moved to the streets, etc. This ist the 4th or 5th rental flat I have lived in. About 50% of people in Germany live as rentees. It generally has been a good experience for me. Finding a suitable flat has been difficult last time, in 2022. Generally, I want this option. Buying a home does have it perks, but generally it is financially not the best option. Example: if I want to buy a flat in the vincinity of my rental appartement, same size, same facilities, I would have to fork over 400k€ at least. If I even find anything comparable. As of now, I pay 660€ of rent each month (+ utilities). That means, that I could just as well live happily as a rentee for the next 50 years for the same amount of money. I am 47 now, so even accounting for some raises of the rent I could live here for cheaper as a rentee until I die.

I will buy a property in 2026 nevertheless. But it will not be located as conveniently as my current flat. I will be able to buy a house for maybe 220k€, but it won’t be within the city center, like my current flat. But the new gf and her kid make an own house more desirable.

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- Miaou@jlai.lu ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago
  This landlord worshipping you Germans do will never cease to amaze me. Cheaper than buying? Guess why the prices are high. Rent for 50 years? You know what you’re left with after renting for 50 years? Absolutely nothing. And it’s not even like tenant rights are especially good here.
  
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  - computerscientistII@lemm.ee ⁨5⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    Again, the world is not black and white, only.
    
    You know what you’re left with after renting for 50 years? Absolutely nothing.
    
    Not really. If I don’t buy any real estate, I can afford to invest into other things. I could make monthly investments into a MSCI world ETF, for example. After a couple of decades I will have 0 debts and a lot of funds. And selling funds is easy and can be handled very flexibly (selling funds for amount x is trivial). If I buy real estate, by the time I retire I will have a house, worth 400.000€ or so and 200.000€ of debt or something along those lines. That might be better on balance, but it is a pain in the ass. You safe money on rent, but you pay interest instead.
    
    And it’s not even like tenant rights are especially good here.
    
    In Germany they are relatively good for tenants. Can’t complain. Rental contracts are typically indefinite. The landlord can also not raise my rent at will or get me out without a good reason and a very generous grace period. But on the other hand, I got a new gf and might need more space and some garden, etc. We will see. I have some considerations to do.
    
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TriflingToad@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago
Fistfight.
Or alternatively rock paper sizzers.

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Mango@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago
It wouldn’t need to.

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