Facts gets downvotes here!
Comment on Imperialism, authoritarianism and oppression is bad all around m'kay
mydude@lemmy.world 1 week ago
I’d say US imperialism is many magnitudes worse than any other governments, except for the brutality of Israel. Who else has more than 750 bases in at least 80 countries worldwide and spends more on its military than the next 10 countries combined. But sure Russia, Iran, China, North-Korea, Venezuela bad.
Ixoid@lemm.ee 1 week ago
Ganbat@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 week ago
Fools get downvotes here. When the US launches a violent offensive directly on a neighboring independent country with the intent of destroying its people and conquering its land, which NK and Russia are currently trying to do, maybe you’ll have a point.
zeca@lemmy.eco.br 1 week ago
your conditions are too specific. what the US did to Iraq, Vietnam, Korea,… is already bad enough. But these dont qualify because they arent neighbors of the us, and the intentions arent exactly what you listed. still, these are already bad enough.
Ganbat@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 week ago
I absolutely love the part where you guys are all so vocal about “but the US did this and this” but have literally nothing to say about @mydude@lemmy.world up there acting like Russia and North Korea are perfect little saints while actively trying to wipe out civilians.
Just Tankie Things™️
Binette@lemmy.ml 1 week ago
How do you think the US was created lol?
TurboHarbinger@feddit.cl 1 week ago
Of course the US citizens won’t agree with this, so their government has to do it somewhere else, so the US could wash their hands. Funnily enough, last time someone did this, a CEO was murdered to get accountability.
This kind of crap is another level of hypocrisy.
TheOubliette@lemmy.ml 1 week ago
Fools get downvotes here. When the US launches a violent offensive directly on a neighboring independent country with the intent of destroying its people and conquering its land, which NK and Russia are currently trying to do, maybe you’ll have a point.
“Neighbor” is doing all of the work here, as the US had pushed its frontiers far away from itself for about a century. Of course the US has actually invaded:
- Canada
- Mexico
- Cuba
- Guatemala
- Puerto Rico
- Haiti
- Hawaii
- Grenada
[More but I don’t feel like compiling the full list]
And some of those in the last half century or so!
Of course, if you remove the morally meaningless qualifier of “neighbor”, your point goes entirely out the window. I think this is obvious to everyone, including you, so really the question is why the need to lie to yourself about US imperialism? Why downplay it in bad faith?
Ganbat@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 week ago
Ignores the point of my comment
Hyperfocuses on one tiny detail
.ml username
What a shock. “Neighbor” was never an important detail, and only someone struggling to string together some type of deflection from the point would focus so deeply on it. The point, as is abundantly clear to anyone with a couple of braincells to rub together, is that these countries are doing that now, as in at this moment, and are targeting civilians, which the person in responding to gladly ignored with their “but no, everyone says Russia is bad” bullshit.
And you have the gall to accuse me of making a bad faith argument. Once again, pathetic.
4ntiyankturds@lemmings.world 1 week ago
The US empowered fascsists all over the world, including in Russia. Yeltsin was a Washington bitch. Westoid are subhumans and I hope somebody nuke new york ahah imagine all the dead yanks whining in pain after their eyes popped out in the blast.
4ntiyankturds@lemmings.world 1 week ago
The US just took part of syria with their ISIS friend you subhuman scum. Fuck you. When the war will come I hope we’ll put the warmongerers on the frontline.
ShinkanTrain@lemmy.ml 1 week ago
Yeah but those people aren’t white so it doesn’t count
ManixT@lemmy.world 1 week ago
Russia and Iran are the only reasons Assad remained in power, where he gassed his own citizens with chemical weapons and tortured, murdered, and jailed political opponents or anyone suspected being as much.
It seems to be a recurring theme with your shit countries. Threatening the world with nukes, instating the world’s worst and most oppressive dictatorships, arming African warlords to exploit gold mines to prop up your shitty nazi landgrab war, building bases on land that doesn’t belong to you and you weren’t invited too, and the list goes on and on.
recreationalcatheter@lemm.ee 1 week ago
I’d say…
Facts gets downvotes here!
Do you know how opinions are different from facts?
Such a sad excuse for an intellect.
frostysauce@lemmy.world 1 week ago
Such a sad excuse for an intellect.
Downvoted for being a dick.
mydude@lemmy.world 1 week ago
It’s an opinion backed up by facts.
recreationalcatheter@lemm.ee 5 hours ago
None of which appear in either comment.
That’s neat
nl4real@lemmy.world 1 week ago
Who else has more than 750 bases in at least 80 countries worldwide and spends more on its military than the next 10 countries combined.
And yet Russia still managed to launch a war with casualties on par with Iraq. Sorry sunshine, if you’re a global power, you’ve got a body count in the millions. Period.
Objection@lemmy.ml 1 week ago
if you’re a global power, you’ve got a body count in the millions.
Very true. But is this an inherent trait of the world, or is there some path forward that would change or mitigate this fact?
Shacktastic@lemy.lol 1 week ago
Shoot… US imperialism is soft-serve ice cream compared to the empires of history. Those military bases by and large extend the American security umbrella to protect the host country, not to put its population to the colonial boot and extract wealth. Yeah they sort of have to tow the line on US foreign policy, but it’s a far cry from, say, the Boer enslaving natives in South Africa or Alexander the great wiping out populations who defied him.
The US has a long laundry list of dirty deeds, but overall the US “empire” has led to the longest and wealthiest period of global peace and scientific/technical/social advancement in the history of humankind. That doesn’t excuse anything but neither is it particularly useful to condition our allegiances on utopian absolutes of moral purities. When we do, evil wins (e.g., see recent election where 10M Democratic voters stayed home).
archomrade@midwest.social 1 week ago
Are you really sure you want to be ascribing global trends to the US empire?
Shacktastic@lemy.lol 1 week ago
Yes., absolutely. The post-WW2 world order was led and architectured by the US. Think of the Marshal plan, Breton Woods, NATO, the UN, the space race and cold war, and the huge impact of the US Navy providing global security for oceanic trade.
archomrade@midwest.social 1 week ago
Whoosh
“Everything is very good, actually”
TheOubliette@lemmy.ml 1 week ago
Shoot… US imperialism is soft-serve ice cream compared to the empires of history.
Amartya Sen estimated that Indian capitalism killed around 4 million people per year as compared to China’s more planned economy. Indian capitalism was maintained by the British and the US as part of “decolonization” and the superprofits reaped from India and ending up in the US are basically public record.
This is a larger total number than basically any older empire you can think of.
Those military bases by and large extend the American security umbrella to protect the host country, not to put its population to the colonial boot and extract wealth.
Oh sweet summer child. Those are forward bases for US imperialism. They have been used to stage and supply every oppressive US war and to control shipping routes. They don’t all just sit there doing nothing. How much did Vietnam enjoy the “security umbrella” of US bases, again?
This is just plain dishonest imperislist propaganda.
Yeah they sort of have to tow the line on US foreign policy
US bases are a symptom of already being beholden to the US. The people of Okinawa hate the US base there. It is only there because Japsn was conquered in WWII and surrendered to the US, and the US built it into a satellite for harassing Korea, China, and the USSR.
but it’s a far cry from, say, the Boer enslaving natives in South Africa or Alexander the great wiping out populations who defied him.
US imperialism is carrying out a genocide in Gaza right now via their ethnic supremacist proxy and just toppled the Syrian state, which will likely go the way of Libya if it doesn’t balkanize first. The US supports its ckient states that engage in slavery, such as the Saudis or Qatat, where South Asian laborers are brought in and their passports stolen.
The US supported apartheid South Africa in a way that is very similar yo how it supports Israel.
The US has a long laundry list of dirty deeds, but overall the US “empire” has led to the longest and wealthiest period of global peace and scientific/technical/social advancement in the history of humankind.
Where is this period of global peace? The US is engaged in constant war. Where is this wealth? If you exclude socialist blocs the trends on poverty reverse. Scientific advancement was global and much of what you could list will have Soviet or Chinese workers behind it.
That doesn’t excuse anything but neither is it particularly useful to condition our allegiances on utopian absolutes of moral purities. When we do, evil wins (e.g., see recent election where 10M Democratic voters stayed home).
“If we don’t accept evil, evil wins” just listen to yourself, it doesn’t even make sense in this simplistic form.
And who are “we”? Your statements place you squarely against those who suffer under global capitalism, dismissive of ongoing genocide. You’re basically doing the Stephen Pinker thing, and he is full of shit in addition to being buddy buddy with Epstein.
Shacktastic@lemy.lol 1 week ago
Hmmm… well, with Trump dissolving our coalitions, we’ll get to see how a nice a place the world is after the pax Americana. Next thirty years should be interesting.
TheOubliette@lemmy.ml 1 week ago
The dying empire continues to lash out and pax americana is a myth.
guy@piefed.social 1 week ago
Seems like this post is about you! :)
el_bhm@lemm.ee 1 week ago
I’d say US imperialism is many magnitudes worse than any other governments, except for the brutality of Israel
Read a fucking history book at least once. The only country that makes the top 5 is russia by the sheer scale of terrain it held at one point and age.
Not even sure if US imperialism makes it to the top 5. With all its capitalism, systematic racism, history of camps, military might across the globe. Barely top 5.
Read. A. History. Book.
electric_nan@lemmy.ml 1 week ago
It’s funny, but not surprising how much you’re down voted here. The meme is heavily upvoted for equating (presumably US) imperialism and (presumably Chinese) authoritarianism. But give an example of how much worse the US is, and people who pretend to hate imperialism fall over themselves to defend the US.
guy@piefed.social 1 week ago
I think the point is that both are bad. But somehow it always ends up with a competition where the US is more bad than the rest, and the rest is therefore somehow excused when .ml is involved
Cowbee@lemmy.ml 1 week ago
It’s important to recognize that when you equate two countries, you tacitly support the dominant narrative. Saying “ABC Bad and XYZ Bad” without doing work to contextualize the extent, impact, and level of “Badness” serves to exaggerate the evils of the “less bad” and understate the evils of the “more bad.” Condemning equally is therefore an unequal condemnation for unequal evils.
guy@piefed.social 1 week ago
See, that's the issue.
Pointing at state A and saying it's bad invokes the response "Well B is by far more bad, if you look at contextualized extent, impact, and level of badness!" thus down playing the bad state A has done.
It's like, A hit X with a fist, but B hit Y with a bat, twice and on the shins, so what A did isn't so bad actually. Instead of just admitting hitting is wrong.
TheOubliette@lemmy.ml 1 week ago
“Both are bad” is not a serious geopolitical thought. Every real project will have negative aspects, so if you reduce your analysis to declaring something bad for having bad aspects you will never be able to discriminate between, say, the Nazis and the partisans who fought them and liberated their countries and concentration camps.
Or, in this case, being unable to discriminate between the global seat of capital behind basically every single war and an ongoing genocide and a growing power who hasn’t had a war in decades and works to get countries out of IMF debt traps. You prevent yourself and others from seriously contending with how the world works and what place you can have in it.
guy@piefed.social 1 week ago
Nazis executing civilians is bad. Partisans executing civilians is bad. A bad action is bad no matter the intention.
Insert some quote about how the history is filled with good intentions.
Tell the 'unlawful' killed that it's ok, it was a growing power who haven't attacked someone for a long time and just tries to lift your country out of poverty that bombed you to bits not the cashking warmongerer, and see if they agree with your reasoning.
BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 1 week ago
Just like how both the Democratic party and the Republican party are bad, but somewhere here it always ends up with competition where the Republicans are worse, the rest is somehow excused when .world is involved.