Comment on This is good stuff
archonet@lemy.lol 4 months ago
Oh please, I tried that “fake it til you make it” horseshit and it was worn away through years of constant shitheads using me for their entertainment, all the while trying my hardest to believe it would come eventually.
The hard facts of life are this: life is not a fairy tale. Not every story has a happy ending. As you read this, there are kids out there catching bullets in Gaza who will never even get to finish puberty, let alone find love. Nothing is guaranteed – you can try as hard as you want at something, and sometimes you simply will not have it for factors entirely outside of your control. Some people will never be able to serve on submarines, because they are too tall. Some people will never be able to be a commercial pilot, because they are colorblind. Likewise, some of us just aren’t destined for love, be it for any myriad constellations of psychological and physical factors.
In my case, I have mild autism, and I can never mask well enough that someone decent won’t see through my facade. Oh, sure, I’m apparently fun to be around for brief periods at a time, but I guess the novelty of a spastic wears off for them and they quickly make their exit, ghosting me soon enough. But more upsettingly, all the horrible people who stick around to use me for their entertainment, I can never see through theirs before it’s too late.
It’s not fair. But sometimes that’s just how things are.
And now, knowing what I do, I’d not put effort towards something as hard to find and keep as love. At least when I put my efforts towards other pursuits, I can see measurable progress in some way. Trying to find love was like ramming my head against a brick wall and hoping the wall would break before I did.
Sadly and unfortunately true. Though the reality is that it’s still bitter and acidic eating away at someone who craves connection. Luck, it seems, is really the determinate factor in much of life.
Still, I hope you get lucky and find what you want from life as much as I hope for it myself.
Oh, believe me, I spent long enough being upset about the lack of human connection I have. It was a bitter pill to swallow. Now I’m mostly just numb to it – but selling someone a fairy tale ending “if they just believe in themselves!” that might not exist is just cruel.
It is what it is.
Fake it till you make it is a mindset and approach to overcome self doubt. It not a guarantee of success.
I don’t mean to give you unrequested advice so apologies if I come across as dismissive of your experience. I just feel like I can add some points that people in your situation might benefit from.
And that is to not chase love in itself. I found that as I got older I also accepted that I would grow old without a romantic relationship. Though I did invest time in my friendship relationships, and that did work.
While being somewhat saddened by it, I accepted that the chances of me finding love through dating apps was low, in particular because I don’t want to have kids, which obviously is a deal-breaker for many people. So my approach there was to just try to enjoy the moment without expectations and without judgement. If I got a match I’d try to have a fun conversation, if it was fun I’d try to set up a date, and if that was fun I’d keep it going. Just going for having an enjoyable time at that moment without expectations. It made even the dates that weren’t going anywhere long term enjoyable experiences, with the occasional opportunity for physical intimacy with someone who was on the same page about expectations. I could have lived like that but just got plain lucky this year I think. For me it still feels amazing to have happened so I’m not going to type lies and say it will happen for everyone. But I went into this relationship with no expectations either so regardless of what happens in the future I will treasure what is happening now, as I’m a relationship with the most amazing woman who adores aspects of me that would often be things other dates told me made me seem immature and obsessive.
So, you and people that relate to you, I genuinely wish you happiness and good things. In all aspects of life. But please don’t give up on meeting new people if you can, you might make someone else happy just by existing. Or if not you could at least give them a nice date.
Not sure why you’re being downvoted… You nailed it, man.
For me that post wasn’t about “faking it”, but truly finding something in yourself you can take confidence in. So I guess, as you said, putting effort towards other things seems like it could work, and also having interests and projects is attractive! At least to me it is.
And i get being bitter and defensive if you have been hurt, but that is only going to push others away. I don’t write this to give advice so apologies if it sounds like that. What you wrote just reminded me of a guy I know with mild autism who has a similar view on life and relationships. And he is cool, fun, knows a lot about interesting topics, and yeah is also oblivious about social clues but that is not a problem. What is a problem is when he is bitter, defensive and blames everything on others while not seeing what he does wrong (probably related with his condition but still). When he is like that, he is a chore to be around, and when people try to tell him he only feels attacked so he won’t listen. As I said, no advice, just wanted to share, maybe it’s not that similar to your case. Best of luck to you
I know exactly how you feel. At one point while reading I thought “Did I write this and forget about it?” It’s sad that you and I and many others are living in a world where being called “funny” is an insult to us. We don’t want to be funny, we want to be “dependable”, we want to hear “You make me feel safe” or “I’m glad you’re here for me”. We want to be good listers but nobody ever talks to us. “Haha, you’re such a funny guy.” Is all we get.
What people answering you don’t understand is the difference between fighting for love and fighting for the CHANCE for love. This is like the difference between struggling to win at a slot machine and struggling to get in the casino. Then people try to convince you that there’s a system to it. Please, as if we don’t know the rules - shower, groom yourself, be assertive but not pushy, read the room, show interest in their interests but don’t interrogate, complement their efforts, be charming and make them laugh. We can follow all this to the tee but all we ever hear is “Yes, but not you”. And don’t get me started at the cowardism. There’s never constructive criticism, at best there’s a " no" at worst there’s a lie. How many times have I heard “Sorry, I’m not really interested in a relationship right now.” only to find the same person dating somebody 2 weeks later. Must have been a life changing 2 weeks to change your mantra like that.
The problem is that there’s an appropriate time for trying and to be picked. I understand what you’re saying about people I Gaza, but this is a fucked up situation in general and outside the norm. I got raised in a normal household, went to a normal school, had normal hobbies and normal friends yet still, nobody ever saw any romantic value in me. And now I’m old, I don’t have the safe environment of of innocence but I’m also not allowed to make mistakes. I have zero experience yet I’m expected to outcompete everybody. That’s the issue. If I’m interested in someone, that someone will always have options beyond me. What others are basically saying is that you’ll find love only if someone comes along that is so cornered that you’re their only option. I don’t want to be someone’s only choice, I want to be someone’s first choice, but people like us aren’t even second, third or fourth - we are not even on the list. There will be always younger, better more successfully and better looking options. And the older we get the more baggage and expectations people were interested in have.
I feel like a car that hasn’t been sold by the dealer, then new models came along and nobody wants the old one anymore. And the longer it sits in the lot, the more people start to wonder what’s wrong with it and why it hasn’t been sold. It becomes a loop of people seeing your lack of worth and assigning even less worth to you. And then at some point you become a write-off, a statistic - cars not sold, lives not lived.
What people answering you don’t understand is the difference between fighting for love and fighting for the CHANCE for love. This is like the difference between struggling to win at a slot machine and struggling to get in the casino. Then people try to convince you that there’s a system to it. Please, as if we don’t know the rules - shower, groom yourself, be assertive but not pushy, read the room, show interest in their interests but don’t interrogate, complement their efforts, be charming and make them laugh. We can follow all this to the tee but all we ever hear is “Yes, but not you”. And don’t get me started at the cowardism. There’s never constructive criticism, at best there’s a " no" at worst there’s a lie.
this.
I’d not be so resigned if I’d had some genuine interest turn up at some point. But the only person I’ve ever gotten a second date from (and a brief relationship for a few months), later told me he meant and felt nothing of what he said he did, over text, on Christmas morning 2020. Even he couldn’t articulate why, he just didn’t feel anything for me despite everything I’d done up to that point to be up to par for him. Everyone else disappears like a fart in the wind well before then.
I know love is not all sunshine and roses, and work and effort is involved, but I suppose we can’t all have what we want out of life.
I am reminded of the quote by Stephen Gould, “I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops.”
likewise, there will be plenty of people who live and die alone who are just as good a partner as anyone else can hope for, but who just don’t get lucky. Me, I’ve had my relationship woes, depression, cancer, losing my job recently because of cancer, all kinds of fun hints that I am just not meant for the things I want out of life. And I guess I just have to learn to be okay with that.
Your analogy with looking for a job is beautiful, it perfectly captures the feeling. No matter how much you apply yourself, if your resume is shit, and you have no meaningful experience nobody is interested in you. There is no going back, no redos. If you didn’t get opportunities early on, why should anybody give them to you now. There’s always going to be someone younger, better, less desperate and more suitef to do the job. But at least there are times when workers are desperately needed or agencies to help you find at least something. But the are not contingencies for being unlovable.
And it sucks. I try to keep my composure, but I slip more and more. I’ve gone from asking “Who are you as a person?” to “How are you going to hurt me?”. It’s like a self fulfilling proficiency, people don’t like you so you become more unlikable. I’m so bitter I’m probably past being a good partner anyway. It’s a straight up paradox, I need a miracle to happen to ever get into a relationship, but the most rational thing for me to do would be to say “No” if it ever happens.
Violence, sadness, pain, hate all have in common that at a certain point they become so absurd that it loops back around to being borderline comical. But loneliness is a bottomless pit, there’s no desensitization to it. It’s like the opposite of a drug, the first time you don’t even realize you’re alone but the longer the feeling persists the harder it hits. And everything is a constant reminder of your loneliness. Songs that are not about love or heartbreak are few and far between, movies and books are the same. It certainly makes you feel like the bottom of society. Most laws are even made for the sole purpose of being able to maintain a family - a family I will never have. What’s even the point of voting or advocating if the rules aren’t even made with me in mind.
Dating is not a sport or hobby, there is no 2nd or 3rd place. I don’t expect to pick up a tennis racket and be world class, neither does anybody else. But if there are people that are not physically or mentally able to do certain sports, then why aren’t some just as unable to participate in love. People saying “You got to believe in yourself and it’s all going to work out.” is as much of an insult as telling someone in a wheelchair that they are going to be an Olympic runner. No we are not, we are damaged goods beyond repair. I don’t even want to have a relationship anymore, I just want to stop being hurt with constant reminders of a life I never had a chance for.
It doesn’t even come with any freedoms. You still have the same responsibilities, same bills, same problems but you have absolutely no one to have you back.
I’m on the autism spectrum too. I’m on my second marriage. My current partner knows I’m n the spectrum, and (mostly) accepts it. We’ve been married for eight years. My prior partner and I married before I was tested; they kept expecting me to change.
And now, knowing what I do, I’d not put effort towards something as hard to find and keep as love.
Here’s the secret: NT people also have to put in effort to find and keep love. There are no fairy tales for anyone, and it requires effort from everyone. If you’re not willing to put in that effort, then no, you’re never going to find and keep love. And there aren’t guarantees, because you’re talking about another person, one that has their own internal life, and is making their own choices. When I practice shooting, my improvement in that area is entirely on me; my gun doesn’t have it’s own will. It is an extension of me. When I’m working on connecting to my partner, they still have their own agency. So if I don’t seem to be making progress, that may not be me at all, but due to their choices.
Good for you, I’m glad you have better luck than I do.
You seem to think that because I’m not willing to put in effort anymore,, that means I never did. Allow me to correct you. I spent long enough putting in extraordinary amounts of effort for a very long time and merely got shit on in return, but I’m glad it worked out better for you, really I am. But in so many words, I’m the one who gets to decide when I’ve had enough heartbreak, not you.
Sure, you can decide when you’re done.
But in my experience, most people on the spectrum say that they’re putting in effort, but they’re not even putting in the bare minimum. They–by which I mean we–have skewed perceptions, because we lack a certain type of effective empathy. We have a hard time seeing ourselves the way other people might, and assume that people are able to see what we intend, rather than the results.
You can decide that you’re done. You can’t create a false, bullshit narrative, and then expect everyone to accept your “truth” as some kind of universally correct thing. Like, “Likewise, some of us just aren’t destined for love, be it for any myriad constellations of internal and external factors,” because, hey, there’s no such fucking thing as “destiny”. There’s no predetermination like that; having a successful relationship isn’t determined by physical–or even mental–standards that are absolute. Every single potential partner has different standards and needs, so if you can’t meet one person’s needs, you move on. All the shit you talk about is not unique to ND people.
…Because everyone has to change and compromise in any romantic relationship.
You can’t create a false, bullshit narrative, and then expect everyone to accept your “truth” […]
and that’s where I’m done reading, it’s quite clear you’re just here to shit-stir and I don’t have time for trolls. Bye!
They were talking about sex, not love. Many autistic folk have sex, so if that’s your excuse, it’s not a great one.
LesserAbe@lemmy.world 4 months ago
You’re right, life isn’t fair, and isn’t ever going to be everything going the way you want.
I would still challenge you about the attitude that everything is completely outside your control. You’ve heard the quote, “the harder I work the luckier I get”?
Yes, our opportunities are constrained by the world around us. If you tell a kid they can become president, that’s almost certainly not true. But by working on yourself, by recognizing your strengths, by focusing on what’s important to you, you can position yourself to take advantage of the opportunities you get.
In the dating world that could look like participating in activities you enjoy that also involve other people (tabletop games, bird watching, skydiving whatever). You might never meet someone at those things, but by increasing the volume of human interaction, you’re improving your odds, while also honing your social skills if the occasion arises.
It doesn’t require trying to be someone you’re not, and will also be counterproductive if you do. In sales sometimes they’ll tell you to “go for the no.” If someone isn’t going to buy you want to find that out quickly so you can spend your time on someone who will. In a relationship, if someone is going to reject who you are, you want to find that out quickly, not pretend to be some other person.
archonet@lemy.lol 4 months ago
I never said everything is outside your control, don’t put words in my mouth. There are some things you can change, and some things you can’t. And after spending long enough trying different things and taking stock of what I’ve tried in the dating game, and not a single human being has ever had any genuine interest in me, as I approach my 30s – I have come to this conclusion not through flip “woe is me” bullshit over a night of binge drinking, this is years of depression and deep thought on it. I accept the reality that is presented to me, and the reality is that whatever drives others away is simply not something I can change, and my best going theory is I’m just an annoying fucking spastic who can’t see through bullshit. That’s not to say I know that for certain, just that I’ve tried changing up everything that I can (and am willing to) change to attract another person – from small things to large – and it’s never helped, and I’ve tried for long enough.
Some of us just aren’t meant to have certain things in life.
abbadon420@lemm.ee 4 months ago
Not with that attitude, no.
Sorry, that’s not a nice thing to say, but in your other comment you say something completely differen “it is what it is”. That is a much better approach and also your own words as well. I think that one is actually “the key to happines”. You might not have been able to find a compatible partner now, but you’re not even 30. It would’ve been nice to have someone by now, but getting older does not mean that you’ve wasted your chances to find love. That’s the vibe I get from you. But it is not true. There are tons of stories of people finding love later in life. Even in elder care homes.
It is what it is, that is true. Don’t let bad luck get you down, but also don’t close yourself off for future possibilities. Be your own person and just live your life in the now and try to focus more on the good parts. Other good things might come later, or not, it is what it is.
archonet@lemy.lol 4 months ago
Ah, yes, “your attitude now is bad so clearly your attitude was always bad”. Naw, I used to have a better attitude, as I said in my original comment, and having a good attitude didn’t help one bit. And trying to pretend it does, doesn’t help anyone – I could have the sunniest disposition in the world, but that doesn’t change shit about the world around me – being an optimist doesn’t help you if, say, the house is on fire. And the world around me wants very little to do with me romantically, and pretty much always has. I can either accept that, or I can live in denial of it, but neither changes it.