True, it was just “a fox” for me for far. I didn’t really care about the gender of a drawing. I guess it is a good awareness move though
Comment on Good luck figuring it out since it also doesn’t come with man pages
realitaetsverlust@piefed.zip 2 months ago
The gender orientation of the firefox logo is something I haven’t thought about ever.
What’s the point of this?
wrinkle2409@lemmy.cafe 2 months ago
errer@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Feels like a publicity stunt more than a genuine attempt to include non-binary people.
zarkanian@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
It isn’t, though. They never said that the mascot was non-binary.
daggermoon@piefed.world 2 months ago
Awww bummer. I was excited for the NB fox.
jaybone@lemmy.zip 2 months ago
Exactly this. It feels like some kind of nonsense spam or troll.
If I was to take the bait, I might say it was to cover for their CEO making some anti gay marriage political contribution. But that was like 15 years ago, I don’t even know if he’s still CEO or if anyone even remembers.
realitaetsverlust@piefed.zip 2 months ago
To me, this feels more like a PR move than an awareness move. Kind of like: “We don’t wanna do anything substantial so uuuuh let’s just make our logo non-binary”.
zarkanian@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
It’s a terrible PR move if you don’t say anything about it. They didn’t say “Hey, look! Our mascot is non-binary!” All they did was use they/them pronouns.
Holytimes@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
It’s a s***** awareness move. It’s just a marketing ploy.
MousePotatoDoesStuff@lemmy.world 2 months ago
It’s a distraction from the real important issue, which is…
…what does the fox say? /j
pinball_wizard@lemmy.zip 2 months ago
Wha-pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pow?!
MoffKalast@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Ring-di-ding-di-ding-di-ding?
Lumidaub@feddit.org 2 months ago
Most people default to “this entity is male” without more context. I do it too, it’s a bit of an issue I try to be aware of but regularly fail. Male is default, female is marked; that’s why the stereotypical “girl” character in video games is just the “boy” character but with eye lashes and lips and maybe high heels.
So I can see this as making the non-genderedness explicit.
DisgruntledGorillaGang@reddthat.com 2 months ago
Its a fucking cartoon logo, I’ve never once thought about its gender identity or called it any gender for that matter. I click on it, and that’s the extent of my interaction or consideration.
Lumidaub@feddit.org 2 months ago
Yes, cool. It’s awareness.
realitaetsverlust@piefed.zip 2 months ago
Most people default to “this entity is male” without more context.
I have a hard time wrapping my head about this sentence. I don’t think about the gender of any entity without more context because it’s usually completely irrelevant.
Male is default, female is marked
So, I didn’t grow up in an english speaking country, but if I hear “the baker” I don’t automatically assume it’s a man. I think it’s a person that bakes bread and pastry. The same with “the mechanic”, “the engineer”, etc. It’s all - by default - a person.
Now, if we were to talk german, there is actually a difference. As “the baker”, for example, we have “Bäcker” as Male and “Bäckerin” as female. The reason why male is “the default” in german is because it’s shorter. That’s it. If you say “Der Bäcker”, it’s as you’d say “the baker” in english, you don’t automatically make an assumption about the gender. If you say “Die Bäckerin”, you are referring to a female baker specifically.
So I can see this as making the non-genderedness explicit.
Honestly this feels more like a mockery of people that identify as non-binary than raising any kind of awareness. Kinda has some “apache combat helicopter” vibes.
Ephera@lemmy.ml 2 months ago
They’re not talking about language with the male-as-default, but rather for example this:
The depiction with less discerning features is what we assume to be male. If you want to express female, you have to add a dress or long hair or curves etc…
There’s actual scientific research on this bias existing, although I don’t know in what way this extends to animal depictions.stray@pawb.social 2 months ago
I grew up in a very male-as-default English-speaking culture. Any animal, robot, or plant would be referred to as it or he, unless that creature/thing has additional female markers such as wearing pink, makeup, etc.
For examples look at the designs of Mickey and Minnie Mouse or Babs and Buster Bunny. If you draw a little blob with eyes, people will say “He’s/It’s cute.” If you put a pink bow on it, they will say “She’s cute.”
You can even look at the word “woman” itself. “Man” originally just meant any person, but “woman” was invented to speak specifically about a “wife-man.” Going to your German examples, why did they make special words for female bakers, etc. and none for male bakers? It’s because male is the default and female is a deviation from that norm. You don’t need a special word to describe the default assumption.
There’s this old riddle:
A father and son are in a car accident. The father dies at the scene, and the son is rushed to the hospital. When he is taken into the operating room, the surgeon says, “I can’t operate on this boy! He’s my son!” How is this possible?
It plays on one’s assumptions about gender.
ttyybb@lemmy.world 2 months ago
And non-binary doesn’t exist, obv /s
If not binary then how made of 1s and 0s?
Lumidaub@feddit.org 2 months ago
Have you ever seen 1s and 0s out in the real world, outside your smarty-pants books? Thought so. Maths don’t real, checkmate atheist.
Nima@leminal.space 2 months ago
to be honest, 99% of people don’t even think about gender at all without being prompted to. especially when it comes to mascots like the firefox logo. its a browser.
this seems like a PR move by mozilla and nothing more.
FellowHuman@lemmy.world 2 months ago
That highly depends on the language.
Example in Czech: Generic Fox (Liška) is a girl Generic Wolf (Vlk) is a boy
Because our words themself have genders. Fox: Liška (girl) Lišák (boy) but default if you don’t knoe the sex of the animal is in this case the girl version.
This differs per language. And in german (if I’m not mistaken) fox is Der Fuchs, so boy.
I’m using boy/girl instead of male/female, because … I don’t know, that is how I think about it.
realitaetsverlust@piefed.zip 2 months ago
And in german (if I’m not mistaken) fox is Der Fuchs, so boy.
That’s true, but the grammatical gender has nothing to do with the actual gender. Nobody thinks that all foxes are male, just as nobody thinks that spoons (Der Löffel) are male or the street (Die Straße) are female. They can also change depending on the amount. For example, if we take “Haus”, which means house, we say “Das Haus” if we talk about a single house, which would be neutral, but refer to multiple houses as “Die Häuser”, which would be female. Nobody thinks houses become female once there’s more than one tho.
FellowHuman@lemmy.world 2 months ago
I don’t disagree, my point was that atleast in my case, if Im not given the gendre of an animal, I fallback to the gramatical gender. At-least in czeck, since it requires me to chabge the shape of the word to express the “other” gender.
zarkanian@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
Well, if I was creating a mascot, and I didn’t want to think about their gender orientation… they/them pronouns are what I would use. Mozilla actually didn’t announce the mascot’s gender. People just saw they/them pronouns and made the inference from there.
BlackLaZoR@lemmy.world 2 months ago
There’s no point. It’s just some dumb manager fixated over gender identity spreading their ideology
ayyy@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
Somebody at the Mozilla foundation justifying their pointless job.
WolfmanEightySix@piefed.social 2 months ago
What’s more is the non binary fox somehow seems more binary.
Holytimes@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
The point is corporations have realizing lgbtq people are fucking just as retarded and easy to manipulate as everyone else
You say they/them and sell shit to a new demographic. It’s the same shit as all the rainbow fucking crap in June.
There’s no actual representation happening here. It’s all just shallow bullshit to sell you shit and manipulate you.
bdonvr@thelemmy.club 2 months ago
The point is that you’ve fallen for some idiots on X making up culture war bullshit.
Kit’s supposed pronouns aren’t mentioned by Mozilla anywhere in any Mozilla announcements.
One news site attributes this quote to Mozilla
That’s the one and only place that even remotely mentions it as far as I can tell. And it’s not even a statement that it’s NB or they/them… More like it’s a fictional mascot call it what you want.
AmbitiousProcess@piefed.social 2 months ago
Mozilla uses “they’re” to refer to Kit, but other than that there’s no explicit statement at all.
JayGray91@piefed.social 2 months ago
I used “they” etc. when I don’t know the gender of the person I’m talking about. I feel like that’s the safest assumption.
realitaetsverlust@piefed.zip 2 months ago
I just read the screenshot lol
RampantParanoia2365@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Jesus, it’s Clippy all over again.