Except that people do a lot of growing in their late 20s and early 30s. Both parties likely changed in personalities, priorities, and experience. The man she rejected years ago is likely not the same man she is attracted to now, nor is she the same person as her priorities have likely changed during that time too.
Comment on Anon asks out a friend
rekabis@lemmy.ca 1 day ago
IMO anon’s statement about body count was badly phrased, but it makes sense for me under limited circumstances.
For the last few decades, my opinion has held firm on a simple philosophy:
If I never ask out a woman I’m interested in, and they date guy after guy, then I have nothing to complain about. They never knew about my interest, and so they were never given the chance to accept or reject my interest. There is no way in hell that I could hold their body count against them, and I have only myself to blame for not stepping up and asking them out when I had the chance.
But if I do ask a woman out, and they clearly and immediately reject me in favour of someone else, then I am obviously not an interest for them. They have clearly and unambiguously rejected me, so what standing do I have to not believe that? You can’t get a more sure sign. If they then rack up many relationships, each and every one of those is another nail in the coffin of any potential relationship. They have made an explicit statement that I am of far less desirability than other guys, and the door closes permanently, and gets barred and locked for good measure. Because if they come sniffing around again, then it is screamingly obvious that I am not her second-best, third-best, or even n^th best option… I am her backup-backup-backup plan that she is “settling for” because all of her better options ran out.
And at that point… thanks but no thanks. That’s a path down which I have absolutely no desire to trod, because down that path lies doubt and second-guessing that can only poison me, my mental health, and my happiness. If she had no interest in me when I asked, then I will absolutely hold that as unchanging, unimpeachable gospel.
Sybilvane@lemmy.ca 1 day ago
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 1 day ago
i will attest to that. my wife and i met when we were… 20? I always thought she was cute, we were always friends, but we didn’t go on a date until we’d been friends for about ten years. the both of us kept moving in and out of our hometown, crossing paths here and there until the second summer we were both there for more than two weeks at the same time. we finally went on a date, hit it off, dated for about six months, realized we weren’t going to get to know each other much better, rushed into marriage, blah blah. if we’d dated when we first met, we’d have broken up after a month. neither of us was mature enough for a stable, adult relationship. pretty sure it has nothing to do with how compatible or who we are, or who we’ve grown into. i was (and still am, just not quite so much i eat a lot) a little dork
wowwoweowza@lemmy.world 15 hours ago
I am replying to your reply to this post so that I don’t earn the ire of absolutely everyone. And perhaps I will not even earn yours. Perhaps… you will find some sense in what follows.
There was an unspoken rule for Gen-X — it was in many ways as you have described here. If you got rejected by a girl… that door was closed. And there wasn’t really room for friendship. If you got burned by a girl, you moved on and didn’t even pretend to like them. Done.
You could have friends that were girls if they had boyfriends you liked. If they had boyfriends you didn’t like, you could be friends with a girl you were attracted to, but only so that she might discover you.
Where I believe I run afoul of Millenials and Gen-Z is where I remind folks we just didn’t have a lot of girls who were just friends… we considered this a fantasy or just waiting.
Wolf@lemmy.today 1 hour ago
There was an unspoken rule for Gen-X — it was in many ways as you have described here. If you got rejected by a girl… that door was closed. And there wasn’t really room for friendship. If you got burned by a girl, you moved on and didn’t even pretend to like them. Done
I am Gen-X as well. That ‘rule’ might have been true in certain social circles, but it wasn’t a rule among my friends at all. I had lots of female friends. (I didn’t call them females though, I called them women or girls). Some of whom I had turned down in a romantic capacity, some of whom had turned me down, and some of whom were already in relationships or we just weren’t each others type.
It think the difference is all in mindset. I didn’t continue to be friends with the girls who turned me down in the hopes that one day they might change their mind. I stayed friends with them because they were cool people who I liked as people. And I hope at least the same was true for the women I had turned down.
And in the time there were even instances where I did get involved with women I had previously turned down, and with women who had turned me down. None of those relationships worked out in the long run, but we all remained friends afterwards.
I think it’s a problem to have the mindset that being friends with a girl means you are ‘just waiting’ your turn or whatever. Some women are amazing people and worth knowing as friends, it’s not all about sex. In fact it’s probably the fact that I treated my lady friends as human beings that we would end up getting together in a lot of cases. I wasn’t expecting it, or waiting on it, or ‘simping’ or whatever. I was just their friend
rekabis@lemmy.ca 5 hours ago
There was an unspoken rule for Gen-X
I am of that generation… solidly middle GenX.
Where I believe I run afoul of Millenials and Gen-Z is where I remind folks we just didn’t have a lot of girls who were just friends… we considered this a fantasy or just waiting.
While even GenX had its fair share of these, the one thing I have seen in younger generations is an explosive increase in “Beta Orbiters”.
Unfortunately, this behaviour of giving attention, time, and resources to a woman who has no intention of reciprocating in any fashion whatsoever, is likely screwing with several generations s of men, and is likely fuelling the rise of so-called “Incels”. Especially since the lack of reciprocity and fair play from what they provide is one of the fundamental “violations of trust” that men perceive. These young men need to learn how to shut metaphorical doors and ignore the women who have no interest in reciprocating and who will only string them along as “useful dancing monkeys”.
wowwoweowza@lemmy.world 1 hour ago
I couldn’t agree more!
hanrahan@slrpnk.net 3 hours ago
While even GenX had its fair share of these, the one thing I have seen in younger generations is an explosive increase in “Beta Orbiters”.
Same here, however for me that’s not a critique or criticism (I’m older Gen X) just an observation of a change in behaviour.
Like the astonishing “rise” in trans people. Once again, not a critisism, just an observation.
These young men need to learn how to shut metaphorical doors and ignore the women who have no interest in reciprocating and who will only string them along as “useful dancing monkeys”.
But it’s not just an m/f thing. I see the same thing with grifter men doing the same thing. I assume it’s some sort of peer thing with the ability of social media allowing easier contact?
That said it’s not a lot different to religion, so perhaps a thing in most humans ?
fodor@lemmy.zip 23 hours ago
Except that circumstances change. So you might feel that now, or for most people, but you don’t need to make it a vow, because who knows what the future will bring.
SparrowHawk@feddit.it 1 day ago
…go to therapy…
50shadesofautism@lemmy.zip 8 hours ago
Care to elaborate?
PumpUpTheJam@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Incel behavior
rekabis@lemmy.ca 8 hours ago
Incel behavior
Ah, there is that ad hominem I was expecting to crop up at some point, seeking to publicly shame me into silence.
And it’s a perfect example of intellectual bankruptcy, where someone is so bereft of a counterargument that the only tools left to them are those of shaming and ridicule. It’s feelings before facts, of a rage-consumed person so desperately intent on furthering their anti-male gender bigotry simply because that man exercises equal rights.
Because isn’t that what women have been fighting for over the last century? For the ability to say “thanks, but no thanks” and the ability to permanently close a metaphorical relationship door for whatever reason she deems personally appropriate?
Or is it “rights for me, but not for thee”? Is it that men simply do not have the right to say no, and do not have the right to permanently close that metaphorical door?
C’mon, this is the platform where you can let your anti-male gender bigotry shine! Don’t be shy! Be the flaming hypocrite you were meant to be!!
PumpUpTheJam@lemmy.world 4 hours ago
Tldr
lessthanluigi@lemmy.sdf.org 8 hours ago
Sometimes I see the gender wars between you two feels like the moden day equivalent of cointelpro.
Both men and women are hurting on some level, and in recent times both of them lash out at one another. I think the biggest reason is that gender recently has been politicised (not 1:1 mind you), being primarly men on the right, and women primarly on the left.
rekabis@lemmy.ca 5 hours ago
Sometimes I see the gender wars between you two feels like the moden day equivalent of cointelpro.
And some people just read waaaayyyy too much into things. Then there are people like you, who read the entire room wrong.
Asshole behaviour and systemic gender bigotry deserves being called out. That’s all I did. Nothing more. There is only one person who lashed out here, and it wasn’t me.
ThirdConsul@lemmy.ml 15 hours ago
Care to expand why? I’m genuinely curious.
PumpUpTheJam@lemmy.world 4 hours ago
Completely overlooking the fact that people grow, mature and change as they get older, just to play the wounded victim.
biotin7@sopuli.xyz 16 hours ago
It’s a kafka trap.
phlegmy@sh.itjust.works 10 hours ago
It’s understandable why you would feel that way.
People change all the time though.
Perhaps after some of those relationships, they found personality/stability to be more important than looks.
Or maybe they’ve spent years regretting the decision, and the short relationships along the way failed because nobody could compare to you.
Or maybe they genuinely are as shallow as you think, and you’re the last resort in the dating pool.
You can never really know for sure.
rekabis@lemmy.ca 4 hours ago
…And? So what?
Actually, let me rephrase that: So fucking what??
Any decision made comes with consequences. The decision to close the metaphorical door to preserve self-respect and mental health comes with consequences. And conversely, passing someone over because you think you can do better also comes with consequences when you discover to have been unable to actually do better.
My problem is the prevailing societal sentiment that only women have the right to say “no”. That only women have the right to close and bolt the relationship door. That men have a duty to accept a woman’s attentions no matter what, and especially if she had rejected him previously. And that he becomes a social pariah, open to mockery and vicious reputational attacks if he says no or keeps that metaphorical door closed himself.
Sorry, that’s not how “equality” works in any way, shape, or form. That’s anti-male gender bigotry, plain and simple. There is just no other way to spin it.
phlegmy@sh.itjust.works 2 hours ago
Men reject women all the time, with no societal repercussions.
You have the right to not give someone a second chance, nobody is taking that away from you. I’m just saying the world isn’t always as shallow as your comments portray it to be.
Rejecting someone doesn’t mean you have decided you can do better, or that you aren’t attracted to them. It means at that exact moment in time you weren’t prepared to enter that relationship.
If you get mocked for rejecting a woman, you’re either still in school, or need to get some better friends. Because no sane, rational people would ever think less of you for who you do/don’t date.
rekabis@lemmy.ca 2 hours ago
Tell me you have never been next to an in-group of women when one of them have been turned down, without saying you have absolutely no clue about inter-female dynamics and discussions.
Like, holy flaming ignorance, Batman. Do you walk through life completely blind? Or have you never just observed women, especially when they don’t know another man is within earshot?
Yes, not all women, but holy hell certainly a fair majority of them.
The only possible conclusion I can draw: you have never rejected a woman, nor seen a woman be rejected and - more importantly - witnessed the aftermath once the woman has returned to her in-group.
In my several decades of being an adult I’ve seen plenty of vicious whisper campaigns that targeted not only the man, but also any other woman he was even mildly friendly towards.
And it’s directly proportional to how high a social status the man has. So maybe you’ve not personally experienced it because you have an extremely low social status? Like, double-wide-trailer low? IDK, I’m just trying to understand how you’re missing trivially-observable real-world evidence.