There are specific games in steam’s case I’m very ok with getting removed, but at the same time its very fucked up that we’re in a situation where the world is beholden to payment processors. Ideally this would be a case where they go directly to Valve and say “hey we think you should take a look at your content policy and at these specific games” and Valve makes the call from there on where they want to draw the line.
Comment on Itch.io is delisting NSFW games due to pressure from payment processors
Kyrgizion@lemmy.world 2 days ago
First they came for the incest/rape games, which most people somewhat agree with (although the principle is still wrong) Next up is all nsfw games. After that, it’ll be mainstream and indie games altogether. This never stops with just one “victory” for these groups.
Cyv_@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 days ago
Glent@lemmy.ca 2 days ago
Im curious what games and type of content they contain you think should be removed from steam. Ive seen a few cartoon pornish type of things pop up before but didnt appear outwardly outlandish. Having never intentionally sought out this content Im curious is there a dark depraved section of the steam store Ive never seen before?
carotte@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 days ago
mention of sexual assault
not OP, but for example the first game collective shout went after a few months ago (“no mercy”) was explicitly a game about raping women to make them obedient. this is bad not because its NSFW, it’s bad because it’s rape apologia, which makes it a misogynistic hate game. to me, it’s not much different than “chad vs the gay nazis”, another hate game that was released around the same time and was also quickly delisted. I wouldn’t be surprised if other games that just got delisted were as bad as no mercy. but also, the blanket banning of anything NSFW (or even just kinky) sets a terrible precedent.
Cyv_@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 days ago
The main stuff I saw removed was related to incest and rape, not in a “it contains it” way. Somehow Corruption of Champions 2 escaped the ban hammer which makes me think those games probably took things pretty far, or were basically built to simulate assaulting people.
For reference, CoC2 is uh… Well when you lose in combat the enemy fucks you, and vice versa. It’s like a lot of fetish stuff too. So not that I know exactly what’s in the games, but I feel like you have to really be trying to outdo CoC2.
hisao@ani.social 2 days ago
In childhood and teenage years I played a lot of games like Carmageddon, Postal, Grand Theft Auto. In first two games slaughtering innocent people en masse is part of gameplay loop. Yet I somehow didn’t grow up to be maniac, and mostly didn’t even hurt anyone physically in my whole life. It’s games, fiction, you’re not supposed to take any of that seriously or to project it onto your real life.
Booboofinget@lemmy.world 1 day ago
What kills me is in most cases you have to pay for the game, then you have to download the game, then install it and finally play it. It’s not.like the game is going to one day pop into your computer and then force you to play it.
Bottom line. If the game bothers ornoffends you just move on.
it_depends_man@lemmy.world 2 days ago
Yes, but.
Everyone should read the open letter that’s linked in the itch statement.
There definitely is a line. Everyone can choose were they draw it. You don’t have to draw it in a way where you end up defending things that are kinda messed up.
There is definitely a hill worth fighting on in that area. I don’t think it’s this exact one.
Kyrgizion@lemmy.world 2 days ago
My line is these payment processors being judge, jury and executioner about what material they deem valid. So I am fundamentally opposed.
it_depends_man@lemmy.world 2 days ago
I agree, but they aren’t.
I am specifically saying this, because my democratic country has laws that would also cover these things the letter mentions and would also deem them wrong. They are just dumb, “not from the internet” and overworked with other stuff.
Please check what laws your country has around the topic of glorification of crime and violence.
We also don’t know what the payment processors told itch and steam.
Itch and steam are doing what they are doing as a blanket move, to create a situation where they can stay in business for now and deal with the problem at all.
My bet would be that they “allowed nsfw stuff”, turned a blind eye, and now suddenly noticed they actually have a really big legal problem, with actual laws and the fact that it was an NGO and not an official legal institution that started this, was dumb luck and now they mostly need time and cover their own arse.
Katana314@lemmy.world 2 days ago
If GTA V is allowed, I’m pretty certain most of what we’ve seen from NSFW games is as well. Regardless, a payment company should not be acting as judge for such things, just as media companies should not act as judge on copyright infringement on YouTube.
hornyAltAccount@lemmynsfw.com 2 days ago
I feel like there is nuance that is really getting lost on some people and that is the way that people engage with these games. Let me try to explain: I like playing NSFW games - even with tags like Rape, Corruption or the occasional Incest. Without trying to go into too much detail, it’s simply erotic to me in the correct context. Now, do I know that these topics are incredibly taboo and/or offensive in real life? Yes, of course. I keep these things private and never put them out in real life. I would rather noone knows about what I do privately in my own time at my own PC. The way I see it, I simply paid an artist to draw something erotic and write a good story and/or program some gameplay attached to it. And once I stop engaging with the videogame, I also do not have any desire to recreate anything in real life. The same way that I don’t go around killing people after playing GTA, I also don’t go around assaulting women because I played a videogame where these things happen.
And that’s exactly what worries me - the people pushing this narrative, genuinely think I would want to start reenacting something I’ve seen in a videogame happen. That is complete nonsense.
Njos2SQEZtPVRhH@piefed.social 2 days ago
The idea that what you see online has an effect on what you do offline, is not that far fetched is it? I mean, I don't know if it's true and I guess you could argue it could work in both directions too. Do people blow off steam online so they don't have to enact their darkest fantasties IRL. Or does the online material encourage or normalize these things? It could also be so that this works different for different people. It let's one person blow of steam, while it pushes someone else over the edge to do something horrendous. And if that is the case, is it fair to take it away from those who are not negatively influenced by it, to prevent those in whom it inspires bad actions from seeing it. I guess we'd need research on the matter, I don't know if it exist or how reliable it is.
wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 days ago
Jesus Christ we can’t be back to this old chestnut.
We cannot, and do not, standardize society’s guard rails around the most extreme edge cases.
Leave it back with Jack Thompson in the late 90s-early 00s where it belongs. The horse has already been jellied by repeated blunt force trauma more than a decade ago. You’re just punching a horse shaped divot into the dirt at this point.
Katana314@lemmy.world 2 days ago
Okay, Jack Thompson
it_depends_man@lemmy.world 1 day ago
The same way that I don’t go around killing people after playing GTA, I also don’t go around assaulting women because I played a videogame where these things happen.
Right. That’s fair and I’ll believe it.
Do you generally think there is any limit at all, in any type of media that crosses lines and shouldn’t exist? Think “liveleak” stuff from when that was around.
Or do you consider this game topic just not crossing that line?
hisao@ani.social 2 days ago
My line is: any kind of fictional content is ok. If nobodies hurt, then there is no crime. And in practice being maniac in games doesn’t translate to being maniac irl. There might be some exceptions of crazy people being inspired by games to do crimes, but they should be dealt with on case-by-case basis using just regular law and law enforcement.
BlameTheAntifa@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Moral judgement or suppression of fiction/artistic expression is deeply and profoundly unethical. How you or I or anyone else feels about something that isn’t “real” is inconsequential. If you allow any line to be crossed in this, then every line can and will be crossed.
it_depends_man@lemmy.world 1 day ago
I’m pretty sure I can find fictional things immoral? Why would it be unethical to have an opinion on fictional things?
Factually, all the lines that you allow to be crossed are crossed and all lines that are collectively defended are usually not crossed. That’s culture. It’s arbitrary and not absolute.
Pat_Riot@lemmy.today 2 days ago
Once they get rid of the sex they’ll come for the violence.
Kyrgizion@lemmy.world 2 days ago
Steam is gonna look mighty empty if every game with violence is removed tho.
simple@piefed.social 2 days ago
They're not going to ban 90% of video games, not everything is a slippery slope
_cryptagion@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 day ago
They’ve been trying to ban violent video games for several decades, you knob. They absolutely will come for them.
simple@piefed.social 1 day ago
And it won't happen because companies won't allow them to ban a trillion dollar industry, you knob. Banning adult games isn't remotely comparable.
CileTheSane@lemmy.ca 1 day ago
So what do I, a common shlub, do to resist this? Boycott Steam and itch.io until they reinstate the games?
Kyrgizion@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Steam and Itch are both victims in this matter, their hands are tied. If the payment processors simply refuse to process any payments unless they comply, there’s no point in trying to put pressure on them. I’m pretty sure they were happy to take people’s money for these games and still would be, if they could so while saving face.
CileTheSane@lemmy.ca 1 day ago
So what useful action can I take to push back against this censorship?
socialsecurity@piefed.social 1 day ago
This is gonna be down vote central but use crypto to pay for games whatever that looks like.
RandomVideos@programming.dev 1 day ago
Isnt itch.io only indie games?
Broadfern@lemmy.world 2 days ago
It’s going to come down to anything with even a whisper of LGBTQ+/minority/disability/etc representation, just like with books.
They start with the “egregious” content (not that it’s necessarily right to remove that either), then narrow it down until it shapes up into hegemonic conformity and systemic oppression via media (there’s a term for it, kind of like stochastic violence but not quite that I can’t remember atm).
ugo@feddit.it 1 day ago
Exactly this. It is so transparent that the goal is to target minorities and lgbtq+ folk. After that, who knows. “Unchristian” games probably.
a_wild_mimic_appears@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 day ago
it doesn’t even stop there - it will be used to punish people who do not exactly like it’s expected, with the mere accusation of playing/reading/watching/thinking something “unchristian” as reason.
TipRing@lemmy.world 1 day ago
BDSM games have been targeted as well for “sexual violence”. Only straight, vanilla PiV missionary for the express purposes of having children within the confines of marriage where nobody is enjoying it porn will be left.