Comment on [deleted]

SoftTeeth@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

• UraniumBlazer@lemm.ee ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Ehh not really.

  Economically: The pro China ones can sometimes be pro market-ish. However, I’ve seen some of them talk about how Xi Jinping is making China have a more and more planned economy day by day. As for the pro USSR n North Korea ones, I’ve seen them range from hard anti-market to having teeny tiny sympathy for a very small, heavily state controlled market.

  Socially: I’ve seen many trans ppl on hexbear. Aaaand I’ve also seen ppl claim transgenderism itself to being bourgeoisie manufactured fake science to distract the population from the real issue- class warfare. HOWEVER, I have seen none of them defending religious beliefs or ideals.

  Therefore, the only thing similar that they share with right wingers, is that their political structures would over time evolve into stateful, classful, authoritarian systems.

  Oh, and yeah- they both really love strongmen…

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  • Excrubulent@slrpnk.net ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Your last two paragraphs explain how they are actually right wing, because the authoritarianism has already happened and they still support it.

    “Planned economy” is just state capitalism. It’s not better than neoliberal capitalism, it jist has a red flag, and tankies are fool enough to think that makes difference.

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    • thedirtyknapkin@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      this is why left vs. right isn’t nuanced enough for real political discussion outside of a two party system

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      • Excrubulent@slrpnk.net ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        It’s why we can’t jist go around believing everybody who claims to be a leftist. We need to evaluate the actual effects of their actions. If they are oppressong the workers, they are not left wing.

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    • realitista@lemm.ee ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      There’s such a thing as left wing authoritarianism too.

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      • Excrubulent@slrpnk.net ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        There’s such a thing as right wingers who coopt left wing rhetoric and fool people into believing they are left wing. But anyone who says authoritarianism is left wing because it has some supposedly liberatory ideals is - and tankies will hate to hear this - an idealist.

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      • Bassman1805@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Joseph Stalin: famous right wing politician

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    • naught101@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Surely there is a meaningful difference between a planned economy/command economy and a semi-regulated market economy? Like, I get that corporate control can still be authoritarian, but it’s different to state control in some ways, I think?

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      • Excrubulent@slrpnk.net ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        I didn’t say it was no different. You can tell because i used different words for the two things.

        I said it was no better.

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    • holo@lemmy.wtf ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      State capitalism isn’t a thing.

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      • Excrubulent@slrpnk.net ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Engels, Lenin and Bukharin all talked about state capitalism. Lenin decried it as “not real socialism”

        the erroneous bourgeois reformist assertion that monopoly capitalism or state-monopoly capitalism is no longer capitalism, but can now be called “state socialism” and so on, is very common

        Lenin, The State and Revolution

        That was until after the October revolution, at which point he seemed to think it was based and cool actually, and that it was definitely what the USSR was doing.

        Reality tells us that state capitalism would be a step forward. If in a small space of time we could achieve state capitalism in Russia, that would be a victory.

        Lenin, Minutes of the Sessions of the All-Russia C.E.C., 4th Convocation. Verbatim Report

        This is around the time he stripped the soviets of their power and disenfranchised the workers in favour of a central state that alienated them from control over the means of production.

        You know, like a capitalist.

        And now tankies are distancing themselves because they can’t square the circle that their beloved revolutionary heroes were actually capitalists, and they pretend the concept doesn’t exist.

        So tell me, was Lenin wrong about this? If so, was he wrong twice? Why the flip-flopping on whether it was good or bad? Nobody seemed to dispute at the time that it existed, and an analysis of what happened shows that the USSR liberalised quickly. The bolsheviks were in effect liberal reformists.

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  • dragonfucker@lemmy.nz ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    HOWEVER, I have seen none of them defending religious beliefs or ideals.

    Antitheism is right wing. People deserve to worship whether, what, who, and how they want. Left wing communities will always support religious diversity and freedom.

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    • Pilferjinx@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Yes, I wish we were more aware of the neutrality of dualities.

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• Allero@lemmy.today ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  They are not, but sometimes their actions can result in outcomes beneficial to right wing.

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  • Excrubulent@slrpnk.net ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    The purpose of a system is what it does, and the tankie system results in right wing outcomes, which makes them right wing.

    I don’t particularly care if their sweet little lefty hearts bleed for the working class, or if they’re going to heaven. What matters is the results, and authoritarian structures are always right wing.

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    • RandomVideos@programming.dev ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Please dont redefine words to fit your argument

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      • Excrubulent@slrpnk.net ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        As long as you don’t bother to make an argument I’d say I’m doing better.

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  • SoftTeeth@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Do you think Nazis and Stalinists were left wing?

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    • Allero@lemmy.today ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Nazis were not; despite taking the name of national-socialists, they only used socialism as a buzzword while acting in full interest of national bourgeoisie and promoting Germans over everyone. In fact, Nazism is reactionary in its nature and strongly opposed to any left-wing ideas.

      Stalinists were left-wing, yes.

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• Clent@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  This is very true. I’ve been told by many leftists that liberals are enemy. The right is the enemy of liberals.

  Leftist have clearly decided that the enemy of my enemy is my friend by embracing right wing political candidates and echoing their propaganda.

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  • SoftTeeth@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Labor is the left wing party in the UK

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• GoldenCow@lemm.ee ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  democrats and republicans are both liberals your left wing and right wing yankcentric view does you a disservice

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• KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  maybe in a more traditionally defined sense of the word, but neo conservatism is anything but equal to tankie based behavior.

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