I wonder how they would handle this in space, or on other planets? If you’re in a ship, there is no sunrise or sunset, and you aren’t going to have a 24 hour cycle of sunrise and sunset on the moon, Mars, Venus, or some alien planet orbiting a distant star.
I guess the simplest answer is to pick a location that matches whatever time they are running on (since people presumably still operate on a 24 hour clock) and to align the timing to match that. If the important thing is the observance of the ritual rather than the celestial events, then this works I guess.
On the other hand, if you’re in space on a ship or station, sunrise and sunset could be simulated by simply reorienting the thing so that the sun is hitting one side or another. Does orbiting earth or another planet mean that sunrise and sunset happen in rapid succession as you pass in and out of the planet’s shadow?
And on an alien planet with our sun as a star in the night sky, do you time it based on the star that planet is orbiting or the position relative to our sun? And then there’s the question of what the date even is, since you not only have a different local orbit and seasons, but you might not even be moving through time at the same rate, and relativity makes the concept of “now” kind of tricky when spread across interstellar distances.
lugal@sopuli.xyz 11 months ago
Years ago, I read an article that this is a big problem already in the north of Sweden. They have no sunset for quite a while in winter.
They solve it with a role somewhere that you can orient this on the next major city. Some interpret that to be Stockholm, others as the next major Islamic city which is Istanbul. Both feel bad about eating while the sun is out, especially when they are born is the “Muslim world”, therefore near the equator relatively speaking
Skua@kbin.social 11 months ago
There was a super interesting situation when the first Malaysian cosmonaut went to the ISS. He wasn't the first Muslim in space, but he was apparently the first to ask for guidance about things like how to correctly conduct his daily prayers and how to observe Ramadan's fasting. The council he spoke to made a booklet called A Guideline of Performing Ibada at the International Space Station (ISS), which includes the delightful checklist for how to orient yourself for daily prayers: towards the kaaba if you can, if not then the kaaba's projection, if not that then just the Earth in general, and if even that isn't practical then wherever.
NucleusAdumbens@lemmy.world 11 months ago
I’m showing my bias, I hope not to offend: how does someone understanding/expert in enough math and science to become an astronaut still believe that the magic sky man cares what direction he bows in during prayer or when he eats? If it’s cultural significance I can understand that, but otherwise I just can’t comprehend how you can have such a dissonance between empiric study/career and fundamentalist religious belief
Limitless_screaming@kbin.social 11 months ago
If you don't know the direction of the Kaaba', then you try approximating. if you can't, then pray facing any direction. I don't know where the other ones come from, but this is not coming from the council, but a hadeeth.
partial_accumen@lemmy.world 11 months ago
In Low Earth Orbit (LEO) where the ISS orbits, its only about 200 miles straight up. It also makes a complete orbit of the Earth every 90 minutes with the Earth rotating underneath it to produce a zig zag pattern to an observer on a flat plane.
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Because the ISS and the Earth are moving so fast, that would mean if you were oriented properly facing Kaaba when you started your prayer, pretty quickly during your prayer you’re not going to be facing it anymore. Is the prayer still proper as long as it starts when you’re facing Kaaba? Do you have to reorient yourself at the beginning of the next prayer?
I suppose with only the friction of air in the ISS against your body and you waited until the ISS was at apogee or perigee you could get one of your fellow Astronauts/Cosmonauts to orient you and impart a very slow rotation on your body matching the half the orbital period while being pointed to Kaaba’s (projection into space). That would buy you 45 minutes at the most assuming you’re at apogee or perigee. Hmm, the would also have to be a few orbits this wouldn’t work where Kaaba would be “east” relative to the Astronaut at apogee, but transits Kaaba during the orbit* causing Kaaba to then be behind the Astronaut or now “west”.
Its a fascinating problem!
PersnickityPenguin@lemm.ee 11 months ago
God we’re a weird fucking species aren’t we?
Karyoplasma@discuss.tchncs.de 11 months ago
I heard that they would just use the sunrise and sunset of Mecca.
Probably just a difference between the different denominations tho.
JayObey711@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Coincidentally I asked this question to a very dedicated and educated Muslim just a few days ago. He said that using Mekka time is something some do, but most scholars agree that using the time of the next reasonable city is probably better.
takeda@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Such weak minds, to many there’s no compromises if somebody happens to have a different religion, but if it affects themselves the rules are very malleable.
Not talking specificly about Muslims, I see this with other religious fundamentalist as well.
257m@sh.itjust.works 11 months ago
So they should starve? The religion itself says self harm is forbidden. If it comes between disobeying religion and self harm you should choose disobeying religion. For example if you are starving you are permitted to eat non halal food.
lugal@sopuli.xyz 11 months ago
I feel you misunderstood my comment. The context is that moslems have the rule not to eat before sunset during Ramadan which is difficult if the sun doesn’t set. All they judge is themselves. They feel guilty for not living up to their standards but finding a “cheat” if you will which isn’t fundamentalist at all, just normal practice
atro_city@fedia.io 11 months ago
Just more proof that the religion is fake: it only mentions things in a certain location because that's where its authors were. They couldn't have conceived of a place IRL where the sun never sets.
Jilanico@lemmy.world 11 months ago
You are factually incorrect. The scriptures themselves talk about what to do in situations when the sun doesn’t set (in particular with regard to prayer). To reiterate, it’s not some religious thinker’s opinion, but the scriptures themselves.
Deme@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Summer is the time of the year with endless days at high latitudes. That’s when the rule “don’t eat when the sun is up” becomes a problem.
lugal@sopuli.xyz 11 months ago
Thanks. Sometimes I’m just stupid