[deleted]
The rich convinced us that taxing them is too complicated but everyday people can be taxed pretty easily
Submitted 1 month ago by VetOfTheSeas@discuss.online to workreform@lemmy.world
https://discuss.online/pictrs/image/39701ce1-938e-4286-8256-bc1caedbad05.png
Comments
betanumerus@lemmy.ca 1 month ago
BennyTheExplorer@lemmy.world 1 month ago
Yeah, just be homeless, that will solve all your problems.
Sam_Bass@lemmy.world 1 month ago
thecomplication comes from thr tax lawyers getting loopholes and diaphinous exemptions implanted in the code
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 1 month ago
they only need to convince the conservative plebs.
RamRabbit@lemmy.world 1 month ago
Wealthy folks (in general) are heavily involved in property and consequently pay considerable property taxes.
It is taxed as such as it is a limited resource.
nerv@fedinsfw.app 1 month ago
That might be correct in some places but not where I live.
Recurring taxes on property are calculated with the age of houses taken into consideration. This means the property value for taxation actually decreases over time, unless a given area undergoes through a serious development effort that forces property value up. This can reach such extreme cases that it is possible to get away with remodelling a house - as in a single standing building - completely, fully modernize it, and still keep its property value untouched, unless swimming pools and other value increasing additions are put in.
Property value and commercial value are separate and independent concepts. A property appraised for taxation in 100€ can sell for 100 times that value. There will be sale fees taxes applied to the transactions itself, for the buyer, and the seller may have to pay income taxes on the sale, but there are way to skirt most of these.
And then there are rents.
I pay more taxes on my work than a person for the rent they receive by renting property. It used to be a flat rate of 28%, equal to deposit interest and other values, but then someone said if the taxation on rents was to go down, the rents would go down and more home would come into the market. Except it did not happen and instead rent shot up and opaque companies started buying homes to rent from people that could not be bothered to manage what they have and pay their taxes on a yearly basis.
Everyone loses.
FiniteBanjo@feddit.online 1 month ago
To play devil’s advocate, homeowners use a lot of publicly owned civil infrastructure such as water, power, data, and roads. Property taxes are very local.
Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 1 month ago
Play? You’re always billionaires’ advocate. Water, power, and data have their own separate bills already. Roads are paid for through gas taxes.
FiniteBanjo@feddit.online 1 month ago
The county offices aren’t billionaires. They tax the billionaires. They are literally the kind of institutions that billionaires fight to control or dismantle.
MasterBlaster@lemmy.world 1 month ago
Note that property taxes, when reassessed every 10 years or so, are also adjusted with changes to the mil rate, as appropriate to keep taxes from property assessment changes from causing people to leave town.
Equities change in value daily. How should those be assessed, and what is the proper response when the equities decrease in value by 30% during a market crash? Does the government refund the previously paid taxes? What if that money is your retirement income?
At what point does a tax on equities essentially become a continuous draw-down of wealth on the same money year after year, resulting in absolutely no incentive to invest in business and for that matter a situation where it is impossible to build up any wealth? How will startups be funded? How will large, shoot for the stars projects be funded?
tburkhol@slrpnk.net 1 month ago
At what point does a tax on equities essentially become a continuous draw-down of wealth on the same money year after year, resulting in absolutely no incentive to invest in business and for that matter a situation where it is impossible to build up any wealth? How will startups be funded? How will large, shoot for the stars projects be funded?
That’s actually the point: use taxes to force rich people to make high risk investments.
If you can’t figure out how to turn enough profit on your farm to pay the property taxes, then you sell your farm to pay the taxes and someone else gets to put the capital to better use.
If you can’t figure out how to turn enough profit on your $10B company to pay the wealth tax, then you have to sell enough of it to pay the tax, and someone else gets more say in how the company runs.
Wealth tax encourages people with ungodly fortunes to make bigger, more risky bets, because they have to overcome the constant drain of wealth tax. Ultra-wealthy shouldn’t just coast along on the low returns of super-safe investments, because those are the people who can afford to lose part of their fortune.
Instead, we have the guy with $1000 YOLOing his life savings on GME options, because the $80 he can get from an index fund isn’t going to get him to retirement, while Berkshire Hathaway is sitting of $300B of US treasuries.
MasterBlaster@lemmy.world 1 month ago
I see your point, but disagree with the approach as a long term policy. We can limit the accumulation by taxing the profits. If we can’t do that, then the wealth tax won’t be any more successful as they will hide that, too.
NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world 1 month ago
If you can’t figure out how to turn enough profit on your $10B company to pay the wealth tax, then you have to sell enough of it to pay the tax, and someone else gets more say in how the company runs.
What’s actually more likely to happen is executives would take a higher salary to pay the taxes and pay their employees less, because the last thing they want to do is be forced to sell shares which is the same as giving up ownership and control of their company at that level.
So yes there might be more taxes, but itd be at the disadvantage of the employees, and the government will give it all to DND anyway and you’ll never see a dime of it.
turdburglar@piefed.social 1 month ago
don’t worry cousin. your ships gonna come in someday and all the fretting about taxing the rich will be worth it.
MasterBlaster@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
I don’t understand what you are saying. For one thing, I’m not fretting about taxing the rich.
liuther9@lemmy.world 1 month ago
Just need ceiling
SabinStargem@lemmy.today 1 month ago
I think that a completely reworked economy, can make it much easier to tax the wealthy. Specifically, by using fixed incomes according to job rank, and having leadership roles change pay grade according to what workers vote for. Each worker can vote for who holds a leadership position, alongside their job ranking.
As to the fixed incomes, by having all job types assigned a rank with a fixed income throughout the entire nation, that prevents leadership from coercing changes in worker pay. They can’t underpay, nor overpay the workers, which makes it easier to assess and collect taxes. If everyone falls into very specific tax obligations, it is harder to game the system.
Alongside UBI, universal benefits such as guaranteed shelter, food, transport, utilities, and healthcare, money becomes optional. This allows workers to not be blackmailed into working for bad employers, which also puts a stick in the wheels of the wealthy. Coercion is the great power the elite uses to abuse ordinary people, so we need to eliminate that.
Also, absolute caps on wealth and assets, both for individuals and corporations. No one should be able to hoard resources that would allow any single entity to manipulate society. Sure, it would suck if someone can’t have dozens of vacation homes and yachts, but realistically, most folks won’t need more than one vacation spot with a nice boat.
MyVeryRealName@lemmy.world 1 month ago
They’re right. Taxing them isn’t possible but you can be taxes pretty easily.
Nomorereddit@lemmy.today 1 month ago
Property tax for the win yo. Remember, fat pigs get slaughtered.
So hide your mom op.
LaoiseFu@lemmy.world 1 month ago
👏👏👏👏👏👏
Blackmist@feddit.uk 1 month ago
We need a tax system where the government figures out how much they need each year, and then just takes it proportional to net wealth above a certain amount.
You can bet Elon won’t be declaring himself a trillionaire under that system.
lemmyman@lemmy.world 1 month ago
That’s exactly how property taxes work if you replace “net worth” with “assessed property value.”
(As opposed to what some people think, that rising property values on their own lead to rising property taxes)
So yeah, why the heck not do the same with other forms of wealth?
MasterBlaster@lemmy.world 1 month ago
So, the government should decide how much wealth its citizens should have, and enforce that? I think there are better ways to approch this than turning citizens into subjects.