Why is the legal system so expensive?

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Submitted ⁨⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨kucuva@lemmy.world⁩ to ⁨[deleted]⁩

We live in the internet age, doesn’t that cut overhead with filing and make things cheaper?

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Rodeo@lemmy.ca ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Because it was made by the rich for the rich.

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- bighi@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Exactly. If you can’t afford an expensive lawyer, the US wants you to lose.
  
  Actually, it’s not only that they want you to lose. It wants the entire system to be so expensive that you can’t even afford to go to court and lose. You have to settle, and don’t have a lot of power determining the terms.
  
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  - Quill7513@slrpnk.net ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Your best bet as a member of the 95% is a class action suit. The problem is that “enterprising” members of the 1% will take most of the winnings from your class action suit for representing you against other members of the 1%. No matter what, even if you win as a poor person in the American legal system, you’ve still lost
    
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- ImplyingImplications@lemmy.ca ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  This point can’t be understated. A main feature of a developed economy is a strong legal system, meant to handle business and property disputes. A strong legal system protects investments.
  
  For example, Iran is a country with a ridiculous amount of natural resources, yet their primary exports are nuts and rugs. This is becuase they don’t have a great legal system (and also they have the dubious honour of being the most sanctioned country in the world). Their government does what they want, when they want. If that means they jail you and seize all your assets on some made up grounds, then that’s what happens. The legal systems in developed nations is designed to prevent this from happening. That’s why it exists.
  
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  - Rodeo@lemmy.ca ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    So what you’re saying is … legal systems are designed to protect the rich.
    
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  - Fried_out_Kombi@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    And thus the question becomes how we can craft a fairer legal system that isn’t so pay-to-win, but still maintains the core principles of property rights that allows business to, ya know, happen. Sure we could do what many naïve people on the internet want and seize the means of production, but who on earth would want to start a productive business or make productive investments in a country where the government can just up and seize your assets without justification? Just as we need protection against businesses screwing us over, we also need protection against government screwing us over. Anyone who says we should just seize assets and nationalize industries willy nilly should ask themselves if they wanna risk some ghoul like Ron DeSantis being the one with the power to do that.
    
    As to actual answers on how to make such a system that isn’t pay-to-win but still maintains a stable system and rule of law, I don’t actually know. I’m no expert in the legal system. But I’m sure there are experts out there who have spent a lot of time thinking about these sorts of questions and have ideas on how to improve/reform.
    
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- traveler@lemdro.id ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  That’s why I get mad when I see people asking to regulate X thing.
  
  Most of the times the regulation only helps a small group of people, and most times these are the rich folks who can afford to either circumvent or to abide by it.
  
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  - Rodeo@lemmy.ca ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    It’s because most of the regulations are also made by the rich. Look up regulatory capture.
    
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NeoNachtwaechter@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
In Germany, it works like this:

Everybody has to observe the laws, therefore it must be possible for everybody to go to court etc. It cannot be that you need to be rich first, before you can sue anybody.

So our first ‘level’ of courts do not require that you have a lawyer in civil cases. You do not need to write things in ‘legalese’ language (of course it makes things easier if you do), instead you can simply walk to court and say I need to sue that person for this and that. They would write it down and start proceedings.

Only court of appeals etc. require a lawyer. In criminal cases the court would provide a lawyer if required.

Lawyers cannot decide their rates freely, but need to adhere to a kind of tariff system. So, getting rich just because you are a lawyer is somewhat difficult :-)

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- Cethin@lemmy.zip ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Most of that is similar to my understanding of the US system, except the last bit. We do have public defenders (state appointed lawyers) that are provided if needed, and I think lawyers are required to do a certain number of cases as a public defender per year, or something similar (but it can be avoided somehow I can’t remember). If you’re picking your lawyer on your own, then rates can be literally anything.
  
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puntyyoke@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
There are some good answers here, but I would also note that because the legal system is adversarial, continued investment can go a long way towards a desired outcome. If you can afford a parade of experts, huge amounts of gathered evidence, and contingency plans researched and prepared by dozens of lawyers and paralegals, you’ll do better in court.

It’s an arms race, so the “best” lawyers have spent the most on arms. That also means that even the worst lawyers have to invest a lot to keep up.

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- Jaytreeman@kbin.social ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Absolutely right, but the added subtext is so that rich people win against poor people.
  It's designed that way. It was on purpose.
  
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Touching_Grass@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
In order to be cheaper we would need to flood the market with lawyers. But the number of lawyers is purposely controlled. Image if you regular people had access to lawyers. The chaos. Youd waste all the lawyers time complaining about illegal wage theft and union busting or excessive force. The system works much better when the law protects the people who earned it

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- cash@lemmynsfw.com ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  brb killing myself
  
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  - Touching_Grass@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    That’s illegal. You’ll need a good lawyer
    
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ThirdNerd@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
The legal system is expensive for the same reason the medical system is expensive:

When you need to be in it, you need to be in it (e.g., you can’t just walk away from possible jail time or having a steering wheel embedded in your body).

Even if it’s for things you are choosing willingly, both systems have over time set themselves up as the only possible options - either by making it a crime to take care of your issue outside their system, or by making you believe that only going their route is the safe / effective / trustworthy way.

Both are incredibly, unapologetically, corrupt to their core, with no one really accountable for anything beyond a few “examples” made here and there.
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- Bipta@kbin.social ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  
  Both are incredibly, unapologetically, corrupt to their core
  
  Citation needed...
  
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  - GladiusB@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Medical insurances charge 500 dollars for aspirin to inflate insurance companies paying for it and the services are just as expensive. Artificial inflation is bad for the services as well as the practitioners and the patients. We have a nation full of people that could have some of the best care in the world but we are gatekeeped by financial bullshit.
    
    Lawyers are liars. Straight up. Any single one I have dealt with representing me or I have opposed has lied in a major way to get what they want. What good is a system built on the fundamentals of the written word to have be more cunning than a four year old to win? It is dishonorable and it takes more effort to outwit a liar than someone with enough minerals to say they are wrong and just eat it.
    
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- nxdefiant@startrek.website ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Of note is the dentistry industry, which is separate from the AMA, and has its own insurance in the U.S.
  
  It’s really weird when you think about it. We have separate insurance for our mouth bones.
  
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  - NathanielThomas@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Eyes and teeth. Luxury body parts.
    
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- kucuva@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  you’re saying that the legal system is influenced by the capitalist system that defines most other things in economy. If the your demand is higher, then the supply is more expensive? What doesn’t make sense is that, even though inflation and lower supplies can explain other price hikes, the legal system has actually receive technology which should LOWER its priced instead of raising them. All the legal system (in regards to the courts) is about is reading text, writing text, public communication, and/or hearing arguments, which technically can be done in writing through the regular means or with even speech to text for people who don’t want to talk. All of these tools expedite and make the process much cheaper. Anyways, I would think that capitalism would be unholy or forbidden in something so integral to our infrastructure or maintanance, much like the army and medicare are socalist-esqu organizations.
  
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jet@hackertalks.com ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Because when you need it, you really need it and can’t be too picky about the price.

So the nash equilibrium is the prices are set dear, but not too high to be impossible to pay.

Kinda like hostage healthcare in the USA.

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- RestrictedAccount@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Exactly.
  
  Adam Smith, the father of free market capitalism, favored mostly unregulated free markets.
  
  However, in his definition, if the participants cannot choose not to participate, that is NOT a free market and therefore should be regulated.
  
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  - jet@hackertalks.com ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    I think there are lots of opportunities here. Public defends and prosecutors should get the SAME budget per case. Would really change the rigor and depth of defenses.
    
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  - NathanielThomas@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Isn’t that why Miranda rights provide a lawyer if you can’t afford one?
    
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BastingChemina@slrpnk.net ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
This way the law is the same everyone but only the rich can use it to their advantage.

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Zippy@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
To reasons. One we have made an extremely complex legal system and two, for the same reason actors charge millions. Because they can.

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nutsack@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
artificial BARrier to entry

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Astroturfed@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Cuz fuck you MURICA, it’s for the rich on purpose

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NathanielThomas@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
It’s expensive in Canada too. After my separation my ex kept the kids and didn’t share. I tried going through the courts but lawyers cost $350 an hour at the cheapest. It means that justice is locked out for people without the means to afford it.

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Hillock@kbin.social ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Overall the legal system isn't nearly as expensive as people think it is. Most cases can be dealt with for a few hundred dollars or less. Especially small court claims sometimes even prohibits the use of lawyers, so the only cost ist your time + getting a few documents.

But as the complexity of the case increases so does the price. And that's because you pay for a lot of time of people with specialized knowledge. But that's true for every profession.

These cases are what people usually talk about. These are the cases that get media attention. No one talks about the small court claims between Bob and John that took 30 minutes.

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WhoRoger@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
It is made to be inaccessible to the common people. Partial or due to avoid excessive overuse, partially (or moreso) so it remains a playground for lawyers and other such people, who are all expensive.

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lumberjacked@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
There are not a lot of incentives to make things easier/cheaper. Changing government processes is slow and hard. Take immigration. It is currently a long and hard process to legally immigrate to US unless you fall into certain categories. I’ve heard politicians on both sides say my entire life that we need to improve the process for legal immigration yet little has been done.

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- kucuva@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  they made an app for asylum seekers in mexico/central america
  
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RIP_Cheems@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Multitude of reasons, though a lot is because they like money. But other than that, there is the fact that a facility needs to be used for days or even months on end, multiple people need to be brought in, several of which have legal experience which is vital for cases, it held in a government building which adds to the cost, and there is a lot of paper work involved.

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