I mentioned it in another comment, but I’ll repeat it here: This doesn’t necessarily have to be emotional abuse. It can well be a result of the wife being in a bad place, having little self-worth, and convincing herself that anon would be better off without her. Perhaps anon’s response caused her to re-think and reconsider, hence the subsequent breakdown.
It is emotional abuse. Just like it’s still assault if a veteran with night terrors gets a adrenaline rush while waking up at night and beating the wife sleeping next to him in his confusion. It is not intended, but the damage is done. And it’s done by the veteran; or the wife in the OP.
The emotional abuse may be coming from a deep emotional wound, but it’s on her to fix it. She gets to keep her shards, or attempt to fix herself. By choosing to not work on herself she effectively chooses to burden the people around her. And they have no obligation to keep her around.
We all burden each other with stuff constantly. It’s on her to fix it but fixing yourself is impossible tlsince their is no template for what fixed looks like.
It’s also on the husband as much as it is the rest of us to see what level of burden we are willing to take on for those we care about. That’s humanity.
You might want to think about how you view others. If everyone around you takes their relationship with you hostage, or worse their life, then the people around you are constantly taking advantage of you. On the other hand if you think of others as burdens constantly you need to change the people around you. Go to a different setting, a club or something were different people hang around.
It’s on her to fix it but fixing yourself is impossible tlsince their is no template for what fixed looks like.
Oh cool, I finally have the argument I can use when screaming at my wife.
Sorry for that, but your sentence is just nonsense. Worse even, it’s an excuse. I get the feeling behind it, but she is the one who needs to seek help. Nothing will stick if she doesn’t want it.
It’s also on the husband as much as it is the rest of us to see what level of burden we are willing to take on for those we care about. That’s humanity.
No longer a husband. She filed for divorce, remember? Also: even if he still was, he cannot take responsibility for her mental health. He can help, but never do it himself. That’s 100% on her. She can accept help, but it’s a thing she has to do herself. Everything else would be manipulation on her.
Now you spin this as a failure to provide assistance, but that’s not what’s happening in the story. She doesn’t ask for help, she severes the bond.
I disagree, I don’t think these two are comparable.
Physical violence cannot be undone. Saying that you want to leave someone, and then breaking down upon noticing your mistake is something that can be talked through. If someone beats you, and says it was an accident, you’ll still be bruised and feel unsafe around them, even if you understand them and have empathy for them. On the other hand, if you understand and have empathy for a partner that said they would leave you because they honestly though you would be happier without them, you can help them get better and move on.
Neither can emotional manipulation. You cannot see the scars, but they will bear a violent fruit.
Saying that you want to leave someone, and then breaking down upon noticing your mistake is something that can be talked through.
Don’t be a doormat for emotionally unstable people. There can be a conversation, a couple counseling or something, when people talk to each other. Putting signed divorce papers in the other persons hand is a gesture, not a conversation. There is nothing left to be said.
If someone beats you, and says it was an accident, you’ll still be bruised and feel unsafe around them, even if you understand them and have empathy for them.
Yes, trust can easily be broken by physical violence. It can also be broken by the spoken or written word.
On the other hand, if you understand and have empathy for a partner that said they would leave you because they honestly though you would be happier without them, you can help them get better and move on.
Oh, it sounded like the husband would be responsible for her mental health, but this is about helping? Then yes, you can help someone get better. If she works on herself to get better you can help her.
Just like you can help a veteran with PTSD. If they work on themselves so they can get better.
i think in a strict sense, they are necessarily the same, primarily because time moves forwards, and you cannot move backwards. Physical violence is arguably worse than emotional abuse, but it depends on the severity.
Punching someone in the face is probably worse than a weird emotional breakdown. But gaslighting someone and emotionally abusing them over the course of a few years is probably worse than punching them.
It’s entirely relative. Emotional abuse is often harder, and more complicated to deal with, physical violence is often extremely apparent. (the reason it’s problematic most of the time is because of emotional abuse)
I would leave Lemmy if it weren’t for sane, rational people like you who have empathy and don’t just jump to the most damning conclusions without any insight into the situation.
This doesn’t necessarily have to be emotional abuse. It can well be a result of the wife being in a bad place, having little self-worth, and convincing herself that anon would be better off without her.
Abuse is behavior, not intention. The majority of abuse is not intended to be torture, but is still abuse.
This might be a language think, but as I understand “abuse” implies some degree of intent, repetitiveness, or suppression of the victims response, no?
If someone is punched, you would typically call that assault, while if they are punched on several occasions while being prevented from seeking help, you would call it abuse.
Likewise, if someone is yelled at or scolded or manipulated on one occasion, you usually would say that they were “yelled at, scolded, or manipulated”, while if it occurs systematically over time you would refer to it as abuse.
I think you’re wrong here. I think a person can be emotionally abusive without intending to be abusive. They might continually seek to block or inhibit the victim’s response, but they might not think of it as such.
My mother used to harangue me for hours at a time when I was a child. It was a textbook case of emotional abuse. Her intention was to protect herself from me, to raise me to be a good person by pointing out to me when I was being harmful to her. The trouble was, her perception of all this was off. I would hang out with my friends and she would take it as me not loving her, and then I’d be in for hours of her crying and talking to me in this horrible tone and her just laying out everything I’d ever done wrong, and she would be breathless and just keep going.
She wasn’t trying to hurt me. She was trying to protect herself. But she was hurting me.
She was one of the kindest, most generous people I’ve ever met. She was also deeply wounded, and miscalibrated in terms of her sense of proportion.
thebestaquaman@lemmy.world 5 months ago
I mentioned it in another comment, but I’ll repeat it here: This doesn’t necessarily have to be emotional abuse. It can well be a result of the wife being in a bad place, having little self-worth, and convincing herself that anon would be better off without her. Perhaps anon’s response caused her to re-think and reconsider, hence the subsequent breakdown.
KomfortablesKissen@discuss.tchncs.de 5 months ago
It is emotional abuse. Just like it’s still assault if a veteran with night terrors gets a adrenaline rush while waking up at night and beating the wife sleeping next to him in his confusion. It is not intended, but the damage is done. And it’s done by the veteran; or the wife in the OP.
The emotional abuse may be coming from a deep emotional wound, but it’s on her to fix it. She gets to keep her shards, or attempt to fix herself. By choosing to not work on herself she effectively chooses to burden the people around her. And they have no obligation to keep her around.
Krauerking@lemy.lol 5 months ago
We all burden each other with stuff constantly. It’s on her to fix it but fixing yourself is impossible tlsince their is no template for what fixed looks like.
It’s also on the husband as much as it is the rest of us to see what level of burden we are willing to take on for those we care about. That’s humanity.
Feathercrown@lemmy.world 5 months ago
This is nonsense. Self-improvement is possible based on your own or societal standards.
KomfortablesKissen@discuss.tchncs.de 5 months ago
You might want to think about how you view others. If everyone around you takes their relationship with you hostage, or worse their life, then the people around you are constantly taking advantage of you. On the other hand if you think of others as burdens constantly you need to change the people around you. Go to a different setting, a club or something were different people hang around.
Oh cool, I finally have the argument I can use when screaming at my wife.
Sorry for that, but your sentence is just nonsense. Worse even, it’s an excuse. I get the feeling behind it, but she is the one who needs to seek help. Nothing will stick if she doesn’t want it.
No longer a husband. She filed for divorce, remember? Also: even if he still was, he cannot take responsibility for her mental health. He can help, but never do it himself. That’s 100% on her. She can accept help, but it’s a thing she has to do herself. Everything else would be manipulation on her.
Now you spin this as a failure to provide assistance, but that’s not what’s happening in the story. She doesn’t ask for help, she severes the bond.
thebestaquaman@lemmy.world 5 months ago
I disagree, I don’t think these two are comparable.
Physical violence cannot be undone. Saying that you want to leave someone, and then breaking down upon noticing your mistake is something that can be talked through. If someone beats you, and says it was an accident, you’ll still be bruised and feel unsafe around them, even if you understand them and have empathy for them. On the other hand, if you understand and have empathy for a partner that said they would leave you because they honestly though you would be happier without them, you can help them get better and move on.
KomfortablesKissen@discuss.tchncs.de 5 months ago
Neither can emotional manipulation. You cannot see the scars, but they will bear a violent fruit.
Don’t be a doormat for emotionally unstable people. There can be a conversation, a couple counseling or something, when people talk to each other. Putting signed divorce papers in the other persons hand is a gesture, not a conversation. There is nothing left to be said.
Yes, trust can easily be broken by physical violence. It can also be broken by the spoken or written word.
Oh, it sounded like the husband would be responsible for her mental health, but this is about helping? Then yes, you can help someone get better. If she works on herself to get better you can help her.
Just like you can help a veteran with PTSD. If they work on themselves so they can get better.
KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 months ago
i think in a strict sense, they are necessarily the same, primarily because time moves forwards, and you cannot move backwards. Physical violence is arguably worse than emotional abuse, but it depends on the severity.
Punching someone in the face is probably worse than a weird emotional breakdown. But gaslighting someone and emotionally abusing them over the course of a few years is probably worse than punching them.
It’s entirely relative. Emotional abuse is often harder, and more complicated to deal with, physical violence is often extremely apparent. (the reason it’s problematic most of the time is because of emotional abuse)
state_electrician@discuss.tchncs.de 5 months ago
I would leave Lemmy if it weren’t for sane, rational people like you who have empathy and don’t just jump to the most damning conclusions without any insight into the situation.
intensely_human@lemm.ee 5 months ago
Abuse is behavior, not intention. The majority of abuse is not intended to be torture, but is still abuse.
thebestaquaman@lemmy.world 5 months ago
This might be a language think, but as I understand “abuse” implies some degree of intent, repetitiveness, or suppression of the victims response, no?
If someone is punched, you would typically call that assault, while if they are punched on several occasions while being prevented from seeking help, you would call it abuse.
Likewise, if someone is yelled at or scolded or manipulated on one occasion, you usually would say that they were “yelled at, scolded, or manipulated”, while if it occurs systematically over time you would refer to it as abuse.
Please correct me if I’m wrong here
intensely_human@lemm.ee 5 months ago
I think you’re wrong here. I think a person can be emotionally abusive without intending to be abusive. They might continually seek to block or inhibit the victim’s response, but they might not think of it as such.
My mother used to harangue me for hours at a time when I was a child. It was a textbook case of emotional abuse. Her intention was to protect herself from me, to raise me to be a good person by pointing out to me when I was being harmful to her. The trouble was, her perception of all this was off. I would hang out with my friends and she would take it as me not loving her, and then I’d be in for hours of her crying and talking to me in this horrible tone and her just laying out everything I’d ever done wrong, and she would be breathless and just keep going.
She wasn’t trying to hurt me. She was trying to protect herself. But she was hurting me.
She was one of the kindest, most generous people I’ve ever met. She was also deeply wounded, and miscalibrated in terms of her sense of proportion.