I mean, from a technological perspective email, even encrypted, really isn’t that secure. That being said neither is fax but…
Comment on why are fax machines still used by medical systems?
Nemo@slrpnk.net 1 day ago
In the eyes of the law, a fax is a secure way to send personal information. An email, even an encrypted one, is not. We need to fix the law, but lawmakers as a rule do not understand technology.
Vendetta9076@sh.itjust.works 10 hours ago
Fluffy_Ruffs@lemmy.world 9 hours ago
Encryption would protect an email in flight and prevent interception. Faxes have no such capability and are entirely susceptible to being tapped.
cheers_queers@lemm.ee 1 day ago
this makes no sense to me when patient portals exist. why isn’t there a provider portal that can handle sending medical info back and forth? I can see all my medical details online already.
halcyoncmdr@lemmy.world 1 day ago
See, you’re thinking 21st century, but this is both a healthcare management technology and a government regulation issue, so you’re 2 centuries too new. We need to go back to 1843 with the electric printing telegraph, which used pendulums and electric signals to scan images and send them over telegraph wires. That’s where healthcare technology regulations stopped.
4am@lemm.ee 1 day ago
That is patently false. Encrypted email and patient ports are absolutely allowed under regulation.
What you have here is a practice that has probably been in operation since the 80s or before, and they refuse to change their ways.
BearOfaTime@lemm.ee 1 day ago
Well before.
And “refuse to change their ways” - are you going to underwrite the project to implement a transition and hold all the liability for the risks?
Its not like changing systems is just a click of a button, this is an extensive project, that you better get right or you’re dealing with records going the wrong way, potentially having serious life and safety implications.
Plus, you have to maintain this legacy fax system because not everyone else has migrated to something new. So for the remainder of your career, it still doesn’t go away, and you’ll have to continue to pay for its maintenance.
Companies have systems they’ve built up over years, that works. They’ll move forward as it makes fiscal sense.
halcyoncmdr@lemmy.world 1 day ago
I never claimed that email or patient portals weren’t allowed.
Num10ck@lemmy.world 12 hours ago
because the referring physicians refuse to log into multiple systems and the providers refuse to log into multiple systems and theres no universal trusted system.
Killn1@lemmy.world 13 hours ago
m banks into a fax server. So all the same fundamental comm tech (so fully backwards-compatible), but a better solution for the company with that infrastructure. Such a company has little motivation to completely change to something new, since they’d have to retain this for anyone that hasn’t switched. Chicken-and-egg problem, that’s slowly moving forward.
Thats the thing. Most if not all insurance companies HAVE provider portals. They cannot get rid of fax until every mom and pop clinic, dentist office, and hospital use these portals.
TORFdot0@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Providers have a market incentive to provide the most convenient experience to their patients. The market incentive does not exist for sending information to other providers so they will take the path of least resistance to be compliant with regulation
cheers_queers@lemm.ee 1 day ago
read my post again. this is a provider that is probably losing business because people can’t get their referral in to see them unless they walk it through the door themselves. how is that convenient?
King_Bob_IV@startrek.website 23 hours ago
I have never seen a specialist without a giant wait-list. These providers tend to have too many patients so they have a negative incentive for trying to make it easier to reach them.
commandar@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Speaking as someone who works directly in the field: this is just plain factually incorrect. Encrypted email is compliant with patient privacy regulations in the US.
The issue is entirely cultural. Faxes are embedded in many workflows across the industry and people are resistant to change in general. They use faxes because it’s what they’re used to. Faxes are worse in nearly every way than other completely regulatory-compliant means of communication outside of “this is what we’re used to and already setup to do.”
I am actively working on projects that involve taking fax machines away from clinicians and backend administrators. There are literally zero technical or regulatory hurdles; the difficulty is entirely political.
Pyr_Pressure@lemmy.ca 44 minutes ago
We need to try and bankrupt any company that produces fax machines.
The industry will need to adapt once fax machines aren’t produced anymore.
stinerman@midwest.social 1 day ago
I work with healthcare software so I can echo most of what you’re saying.
The thing is the lowest common denominator is a fax (usually a fax server that creates a PDF or TIFF of what comes over the wire), so that’s what people go with. It’s the interoperability between different systems that’s the problem. There’s no one standard…except for faxes.
commandar@lemmy.world 1 day ago
HL7 and FHIR have been around for decades. Exchanging data is actually the easy part.
The problem is typically more on the business logic side of thing. Good example is the fact that matching a patient to a particular record between facilities is a much harder problem than people realize because there are so many ways to implement patient identifiers differently and for whoever inputs a record to screw up entry. Another is the fact that sex/gender codes can be implemented wildly differently between facilities. Matching data between systems the really hard part.
(I used to do HL7 integration, but have since moved more to the systems side of things).
Bo7a@lemmy.ca 15 hours ago
I feel this - I’m often on the other end working with data from clinicians in the field for massive studies. The forms that come in can have an infinite number of possibilities just for noting sex. Enough so that our semantic layer needs a human reviewer because we keep finding new ways field clinicians have of noting this. Now imagine that over the whole gamut of identifiers.
tl:dr - Humans are almost always the problem in data harmonization.
stinerman@midwest.social 23 hours ago
I work in a particularly niche area (home infusion/home medical equipment) and while HL7 and FHIR are indeed things, practically no software that was built for those lines of business had any sort of module for that. We have a FHIR interface now and…no one uses it. They prefer faxes.
mesamunefire@lemmy.world 20 hours ago
EDI as well
BearOfaTime@lemm.ee 1 day ago
“embedded in many workflows”
Key statement right there.
And once people see that that really means, and what it would take to move past it (including time, cost, and risk), they may start to understand.
It became the de facto way to send stuff with high confidence it went to the right place. Then tech addressed the paper-to-paper over one phone line issue with modem banks into a fax server. So all the same fundamental comm tech (so fully backwards-compatible), but a better solution for the company with that infrastructure. Such a company has little motivation to completely change to something new, since they’d have to retain this for anyone that hasn’t switched. Chicken-and-egg problem, that’s slowly moving forward.
It’ll be a long time before it’s gone completely. Perhaps in 20 years, but I suspect fax will still be around as a fallback/compatibility.
commandar@lemmy.world 1 day ago
They’ve had motivation since the HITECH Act passed in 2009. Medicare/Medicaid compensation is increasingly directly tied to real adoption of modern electronic records, availability, and interoperability. Most healthcare orgs rely heavily on Medicare/Medicaid revenue, so that’s a big, big deal.
I do. Which is why I’m actively and aggressively removing fax machines from our environment. Efaxing (e.g., fax-to-email gateways) will stick around for back-compatibility purposes with outside organizations, but the overall industry trend is to do everything you can to minimize the footprint of fax machines because they’ve traditionally been used in ways that will cost the company serious revenue if they cause you to miss CMS measures.