The emphasis should really be “sufficiently regulated”. I can’t see any capitalist country at the moment where the regulation is as stringent as needed and as punishing for violations as deserved.
Comment on Capitalism is all about using state power to protect capital by force
daychilde@lemmy.world 21 hours ago
I’m perfectly fine with sufficiently regulated capitalism. I’ve certainly not seen any working alternatives that have worked at a nation-wide scale.
Wildmimic@anarchist.nexus 21 hours ago
daychilde@lemmy.world 21 hours ago
The best countries that I can point to (Scandanavia) seem to have the highest regulated capitalism.
I don’t see any examples of countries that are not some form of capitalism, but in general, the less regulations, the worse they’re doing.
theuniqueone@lemmy.dbzer0.com 21 hours ago
Why isn’t communism scalable in your mind? “Well regulated capitalism” is still by definition exploitation.
DegradationDenial@feddit.nl 6 hours ago
Communism (not DemSoc) is an economic system where a government essentially owns the population ruled by an autocrat. The ML way of democratic centralism completely fails when the opposition is blocked from voting which assures total enforced hegemony.
Independent unions are illegal in China with only the All-China Federation of Trade Unions(ACFTU) permitted by the Chinese state and the Chinese Communist Party to operate.
This doesn’t sound like a good idea.
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 46 minutes ago
Communism (not DemSoc) is an economic system where a government essentially owns the population ruled by an autocrat, under the veil of a single union.
No it’s not.
searabbit@piefed.social 21 hours ago
I think a lot of people think capitalism literally means commerce. The sanctions usually imposed on socialist/ communist countries fuels this idea by directly restricting commerce in those countries and sabotaging them.
cattywampas@lemmy.world 21 hours ago
Would you want this administration to own the means of production?
Catoblepas@lemmy.blahaj.zone 20 hours ago
Psst: workers own the means of production under communism.
adjectivenoun@lemmy.world 26 minutes ago
How do they own it?
Steve@communick.news 20 hours ago
Psst: that’s socialism.
daychilde@lemmy.world 21 hours ago
I’ve certainly not seen any working alternatives that have worked at a nation-wide scale.
kinsnik@lemmy.world 20 hours ago
i think markets do provide signals about local preferences and efficencies that centralized economies lose. personally i think socialism > comunism because of that, in which the workers own the factories but markets still operate on competition;
i am also open to something like georgism which is capitalism but all rent-seeking activities are 100% taxed and give back in form of services and UBI to the population
One_Honest_Dude@lemmy.world 19 hours ago
Markets are not a function of capitalism; feudalism, mercantilism, etc. all had markets. There would be and have been markets in communist governments. Marx himself held the same sentiment about markets being effective for similar reasons you listed.
gastroglizzy@piefed.social 21 hours ago
Yep, never worked before, ever… except for all the places it has.
daychilde@lemmy.world 21 hours ago
And where do you think it has worked?
rockSlayer@lemmy.blahaj.zone 20 hours ago
The entire globe since prehistory until capitalist colonialism started spreading around the world in the late 1600s from the Dutch East India company
daychilde@lemmy.world 20 hours ago
Oh, so you guys are doing the stupid thing where you redefine words.
Okay, whatever, have fun with that.
OwOarchist@pawb.social 21 hours ago
Who says we need a nation-wide scale? Nations are just too big.
daychilde@lemmy.world 21 hours ago
I have year to see anyone suggest workable practical alternatives, just feel-good masturbation like the above comment.
So go ahead, masturbate furiously to your fantasies, but I’d rather deal with the adults in the room talking about actual workable ways to improve our lives.
This is the type of nonsense that leads to twits saying “I only agree with like 90% of what this progressive politician stands for, so I won’t vote for them!” and the fascists fucking win.
Grow the fuck up, people. Jesus christ.
Work reform? We nede to string our fucking oligarchs up and solve wealth inequality. We need to use things that WORK. Capitalism is fine, just need sufficient regulations. What we don’t need is a useless communist reveolution that throws everything into utter chaos and fails.
We need strong unions, universal health care, universal basic income, human rights protections.
Not to fuck around playing with schemes that won’t work on the countries that already exist.
OwOarchist@pawb.social 20 hours ago
We nede to string our fucking oligarchs up and solve wealth inequality. We need to use things that WORK. Capitalism is fine, just need sufficient regulations.
It is impossible to get sufficient regulations under capitalism. Even if you (temporarily) manage it, the influence of capital will sooner or later erode, subvert, and repeal those regulations.
Capitalism literally means ‘rule by capital’. As long as you have capitalism, capital will rule you. And what does capital want? More capital, more power, at any cost. It will always be working toward taking away your strong unions, your healthcare, your UBI, your human rights, all in the name of increasing wealth inequality, of making the rich richer. And it will always succeed, sooner or later. Because that’s what capitalism is. That’s what it does. That’s what it will always trend toward. Maybe you can fight for some temporary reforms, but that will always be a short term solution before your hard-earned reforms inevitably get subverted by those who actually rule you under a capitalist system.
Not to fuck around playing with schemes that won’t work on the countries that already exist.
And you think reforming capitalism works? Works for whom? When has it ever worked? I’m not the only one here with masturbatory fantasies.
daychilde@lemmy.world 20 hours ago
Scandanavia is pretty much doing just about best in the world. I think they’re largely showing what can be done. Perfect? No. But better than the fascist shithole the US has become.
I don’t see anything besides capitalism working at ALL out there.
Catoblepas@lemmy.blahaj.zone 21 hours ago
Crazy that nowhere in the world had functional societies until the past couple of centuries. Just wild.
JcbAzPx@lemmy.world 17 hours ago
You want to go back to feudalism?
Catoblepas@lemmy.blahaj.zone 15 hours ago
Nope, and that’s not what I said. The claim was that capitalism is the only system that has ever worked at a nationwide scale. The fact you brought up feudalism as an alternative shows it clearly wasn’t the only system that ever worked. And just like the divine right of kings was eventually found distasteful and overthrown throughout most of the world, so too can people come to find the capitalist system distasteful and replace it. It’s not a law of nature that people must operate under capitalism.